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To: "Vesselin Kenashkov" <kenashkov@gmail.com>,
	"Ryan Panning" <rpanning@gmail.com>
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Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2008 14:58:22 +0100
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3
From: steph@php.net ("Steph Fox")

Hi Vesselin,


>I see the point and objections against "quick and dirty", but on the other
> hand the discussion about the namespaces started long time ago - two years
> already?

Longer than that - they were thrown out in 5.0 too.

> If for two years there wasn't an agreement how they have to be
> implemented (or even whether to add them at all! because I see many 
> comments
> in this sense) what are the reasons to think that in the next 5-6 months,
> when php6 will reach its "release stage" with the first alphas, this will 
> be
> done?

The difference between 5.0 and now is that there wasn't an agreed base 
implementation in 5.0. That much, we have now. The problem (which was only 
defined clearly within the last few weeks) is that there's no consensus 
about the extent of namespace support, ie whether or not to go beyond 
classes as namespace elements. We have the choice of saying this will never 
happen, or providing the means to make it possible for it to happen, and 
that's where the discussion is now. If we provide the means to make 
namespaced functions/constants possible at this stage, we won't be able to 
change the chosen approach at a later stage even if it becomes apparent that 
the approach is wrong. Also if we don't provide for it, we won't have the 
option to change our collective mind later once namespace support is in PHP.

> Even the namespaces dont go in php5.3 I think a solution/agreement has to 
> be
> found quickly because it looks like php 6.0 could be in the same situation
> after few months.

Moving it to PHP 6 allows more room for experimentation. We can try the -> 
thing and see if it works well for people or if we need a new symbol to 
express namespace elements, or even if the whole thing of function/constant 
support is a Bad Thing for PHP. We don't have time to do all that before 
5.3.0.

- Steph