Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:40742 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 19491 invoked from network); 28 Sep 2008 15:31:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 28 Sep 2008 15:31:18 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=david.zuelke@bitextender.com; sender-id=unknown Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=david.zuelke@bitextender.com; spf=permerror; sender-id=unknown Received-SPF: error (pb1.pair.com: domain bitextender.com from 80.237.132.12 cause and error) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: david.zuelke@bitextender.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 80.237.132.12 wp005.webpack.hosteurope.de Received: from [80.237.132.12] ([80.237.132.12:48457] helo=wp005.webpack.hosteurope.de) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 51/D4-22976-343AFD84 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2008 11:31:16 -0400 Received: from dslb-088-064-218-161.pools.arcor-ip.net ([88.64.218.161] helo=[192.168.0.19]); authenticated by wp005.webpack.hosteurope.de running ExIM using esmtpsa (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) id 1KjyEq-00047Q-39; Sun, 28 Sep 2008 17:31:12 +0200 Cc: "Gregory Beaver" , "jvlad" , Message-ID: <2E68951E-C9AB-4F82-9EDB-4774C4996F3B@bitextender.com> To: Steph Fox In-Reply-To: <007801c92176$8fdaaba0$3ffc1f3e@foxbox> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-6--504464973; micalg=sha1; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v926) X-Priority: 3 Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2008 17:31:08 +0200 References: <9E3A4397-3595-42D8-BF73-7F7575B93772@pooteeweet.org> <003501c92037$9512fef0$3ffc1f3e@foxbox> <48DD7E3D.5060708@zend.com> <006701c92039$6245dc20$3ffc1f3e@foxbox> <48DDB24A.7090705@chiaraquartet.net> <81.6B.30545.B4C3ED84@pb1.pair.com> <48DE9455.6020608@chiaraquartet.net> <007801c92176$8fdaaba0$3ffc1f3e@foxbox> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.926) X-bounce-key: webpack.hosteurope.de;david.zuelke@bitextender.com;1222615876;c168036b; Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] alpha3 From: david.zuelke@bitextender.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?David_Z=FClke?=) --Apple-Mail-6--504464973 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit +1, or: "Do, or do not. There is no 'try.'" - David On 28.09.2008, at 16:29, Steph Fox wrote: > Hi Greg, > >> The patch I posted here: >> >> http://pear.php.net/~greg/ns.element.patch.txt >> >> does exactly what you are talking about. For some reason, some >> people >> find this too difficult to digest. I've already expressed my >> opinion on >> the matter (after all, I did spend almost a week developing the >> patch). > > OK, I'll bite. > > First off, I find '->' just as much as potential source of confusion > as '::', and for the exact same reason: it's already used to express > a relationship in PHP. All this says to me is we still don't have > the right ns separator. > > It's clear that PHP 5.3 shouldn't go out with '::' as the ns > separator even if only classes are supported, despite the fact that > the current implementation appears solid in every other respect at > that level. It can't go out that way because we already know there > will be huge user pressure to extend namespace support beyond > classes. This wasn't part of the original remit, but we now know we > need to allow for it before ns support is part of an official release. > > It's equally clear (to me at least) that having two ways to express > a namespaced element depending on context would be a Bad Thing [TM]. > The only reason that's even come up for consideration is the > ambiguity caused by the ns separator we already have. > > Basically, I think you're trying to find solutions to the wrong > problem, since at present ns support doesn't exist in any official > PHP release. Your approach assumes a BC consideration that > (thankfully) doesn't exist yet. > > I don't want to see that whole ns separator debate all over again > any more than you do, but I really don't see a good way to avoid > it... sorry. > > And if that means introducing a new symbol... it can't really be > staved off until 6.0, unless we don't care about 6.0 code not > running under 5.3. > > The other option of course would be to say "ns support will > **never** be extended beyond classes", and actually mean it. > > - Steph > > -- > PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > --Apple-Mail-6--504464973 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIGXDCCAxUw ggJ+oAMCAQICEHvgrI6DXM4XmK4XvhB7lh4wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkEx JTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQ ZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA4MDgyMjE0MjEzOVoXDTA5MDgyMjE0MjEz OVowTjEfMB0GA1UEAxMWVGhhd3RlIEZyZWVtYWlsIE1lbWJlcjErMCkGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYcZGF2 aWQuenVlbGtlQGJpdGV4dGVuZGVyLmNvbTCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEB ANx+fe+8oUaO+fotZryRBmD3NAP00QikUIqIyZKiwJ4BS9M8DdqN0lAh443rdw1h/H0NVkDMv7+7 MnSUYKU+BTwulvU7WDGLm7JGkXXWkGl5vHUnUWltUkk8ImUDiunYPnuyUVyQlnZkp1ThihYoR4xo MmiiC+6mHLl8FzMKimOU/UREpGfyLqYhsNdXiVgm+W8feO6aY3fDaenn9EVZEXJs6t7KxLpCIlD2 8+0dHlX+91vV4a9zfMObjEkLW3w/uBTT+uHypySHo/EWw0/pOD34sMdhSh0Xyr4un+Uv/DHH1ft3 5TJq6DEIrIL4iUpGa7Nsqjoah5SgpWwJY+gWaC8CAwEAAaNcMFowDgYDVR0PAQH/BAQDAgSwMBEG CWCGSAGG+EIBAQQEAwIFIDAnBgNVHREEIDAegRxkYXZpZC56dWVsa2VAYml0ZXh0ZW5kZXIuY29t MAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADgYEAbEPiMjevqmbl2NuGieZkF5fNV1Uhr0dL wGDDxIcIHGnBeEBVy/5NpAKJUCU4lqG+bqD1S4MdyyLxvzlhOSZEqjcEwtwXqLVsaDakYFHsRGaS DU160+1b/wlf8/OR5tof7y5MA8p6MSQHjXWOy38A71wvwFowGZPF5lY617W5mUMwggM/MIICqKAD AgECAgENMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMIHRMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTEVMBMGA1UECBMMV2VzdGVybiBD YXBlMRIwEAYDVQQHEwlDYXBlIFRvd24xGjAYBgNVBAoTEVRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nMSgwJgYD VQQLEx9DZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIFNlcnZpY2VzIERpdmlzaW9uMSQwIgYDVQQDExtUaGF3dGUgUGVy c29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgQ0ExKzApBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWHHBlcnNvbmFsLWZyZWVtYWlsQHRoYXd0 ZS5jb20wHhcNMDMwNzE3MDAwMDAwWhcNMTMwNzE2MjM1OTU5WjBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMG A1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNv bmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0EwgZ8wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADgY0AMIGJAoGBAMSmPFVz VftOucqZWh5owHUEcJ3f6f+jHuy9zfVb8hp2vX8MOmHyv1HOAdTlUAow1wJjWiyJFXCO3cnwK4Va qj9xVsuvPAsH5/EfkTYkKhPPK9Xzgnc9A74r/rsYPge/QIACZNenprufZdHFKlSFD0gEf6e20Txh BEAeZBlyYLf7AgMBAAGjgZQwgZEwEgYDVR0TAQH/BAgwBgEB/wIBADBDBgNVHR8EPDA6MDigNqA0 hjJodHRwOi8vY3JsLnRoYXd0ZS5jb20vVGhhd3RlUGVyc29uYWxGcmVlbWFpbENBLmNybDALBgNV HQ8EBAMCAQYwKQYDVR0RBCIwIKQeMBwxGjAYBgNVBAMTEVByaXZhdGVMYWJlbDItMTM4MA0GCSqG SIb3DQEBBQUAA4GBAEiM0VCD6gsuzA2jZqxnD3+vrL7CF6FDlpSdf0whuPg2H6otnzYvwPQcUCCT cDz9reFhYsPZOhl+hLGZGwDFGguCdJ4lUJRix9sncVcljd2pnDmOjCBPZV+V2vf3h9bGCE6u9uo0 5RAaWzVNd+NWIXiC3CEZNd4ksdMdRv9dX2VPMYIDEDCCAwwCAQEwdjBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTEl MCMGA1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBl cnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0ECEHvgrI6DXM4XmK4XvhB7lh4wCQYFKw4DAhoFAKCC AW8wGAYJKoZIhvcNAQkDMQsGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0BCQUxDxcNMDgwOTI4MTUzMTA5 WjAjBgkqhkiG9w0BCQQxFgQUEluZ3bCo8AmMe0YRGeZNQFLR4dAwgYUGCSsGAQQBgjcQBDF4MHYw YjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAq BgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBAhB74KyOg1zOF5iuF74Q e5YeMIGHBgsqhkiG9w0BCRACCzF4oHYwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBD b25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJ c3N1aW5nIENBAhB74KyOg1zOF5iuF74Qe5YeMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUABIIBAKyqzakLmXlhrECk 38iWA/5foDuVYUxT2aMM9XMBRgdSnetQdtnlj7m3PDp4QC9RzCyRwaGph+Gjy/Qony+Ql7HYxBKz telmSDxXqOfAgdeEsprtl/O+7oHkeDpEtUT5NhMzAHZNN0UvvOs/5ZvMZ3kPNsbkKUdtOr2kY2lq vEKk/OWJJbEgZ8Epxuj/4nItmAT2DHzfbc9riuw5sDxnfgwitmrxAstoMkN/AswODe4XXI24C5pm C06qM6pl0MthWuGm1+Gn/ku6JJKNzSkHYVakMV2BoE9OtfWOdjjATMiXPcSHsIDBA32SsUotnksy ZErrLAaqBsr/4BrpJvyOg4YAAAAAAAA= --Apple-Mail-6--504464973--