Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:40371
Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm
Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain gmx.net designates 213.165.64.20 as permitted sender)
Cc: Dmitry Stogov <dmitry@zend.com>,
 Stanislav Malyshev <stas@zend.com>,
 Greg Beaver <cellog@php.net>,
 PHP Developers Mailing List <internals@lists.php.net>
Message-ID: <0272AF7A-63AA-459B-8596-6E3ADF21BF8B@gmx.net>
To: Lukas Kahwe Smith <mls@pooteeweet.org>
In-Reply-To: <45212116-55A0-4683-8BF7-E3723637158D@pooteeweet.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v926)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 21:10:39 +0200
References: <ADD0525F-F900-4F3A-9B76-1ED332CA31E0@pooteeweet.org> <486FA5FB.1000300@php.net> <E06A1FB3-971F-4D4F-850A-D0255F7275F7@pooteeweet.org> <48C55855.4080602@zend.com> <A077B6EC-3E30-4F46-91CA-FD75D578CC7A@pooteeweet.org> <48C5668E.7040503@zend.com> <45212116-55A0-4683-8BF7-E3723637158D@pooteeweet.org>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: towards a 5.3 release
From: r.borschel@gmx.net (Roman Borschel)

Hi,

On Sep 8, 2008, at 8:45 PM, Lukas Kahwe Smith wrote:

>
> On 08.09.2008, at 19:53, Dmitry Stogov wrote:
>
>> The main PHP namespaces ideas come from Java packages and Java  
>> classes
>> have to write these "use" statements in the same way. It's not the  
>> end
>> of the world. I believe that well-designed frameworks won't require a
>> lot of use statements in user-space code.
>
>
> Given the overwhelming feedback that this is indeed a big issue, I  
> would be more careful with saying this is a non issue for "well  
> designed" frameworks. If someone could post some links to their  
> namespace using code that is suffering from the current situation it  
> would provide a good opportunity for all of us to review and comment  
> (hopefully in a respectful manner .. after all these people are  
> treading on new territory so its much easier to make witty comments  
> than doing the initial hard work of trying to do something new).  
> Especially in this sense I would recommend all people on this list  
> to make sure they use language that encourages people from coming  
> out of the shadows on this topic, rather than scaring them off.

I don't see this as a big issue either. I've seen and worked with very  
large Java code bases and it has never been an issue. Sure, there are  
classes where you can end up with up to 40 or more imports. In Java,  
IDEs and code-folding make this a non-issue. And it needs to be noted  
that wildcard imports in Java are not used often. Direct imports of  
the classes is often preferred, especially due to the fact that it's  
made *very* easy by IDEs/editors. Even without the help of editors/ 
IDEs in PHP I would still consider this a small issue. And dozens of  
imports/uses are not the common case anyway (it *may* even indicate  
design issues/too much coupling).

Just my 2 cents on this topic.

Roman