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Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 12:12:07 +0200
Reply-To: Marcus Boerger <helly@php.net>
Message-ID: <1818816215.20080830121207@marcus-boerger.de>
To: Stanislav Malyshev <stas@zend.com>
CC: Hannes Magnusson <hannes.magnusson@gmail.com>, 
	Felipe Pena <felipensp@gmail.com>, Marcus Boerger <helly@php.net>, 
	Lukas Kahwe Smith <mls@pooteeweet.org>, 
	PHP Internals List <internals@lists.php.net>, 
	=?iso-8859-1?Q?Johannes_Schl=FCter?= <johannes@php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] alpha2 scheduled
From: helly@php.net (Marcus Boerger)

Hello Stanislav,

Friday, August 29, 2008, 10:00:08 PM, you wrote:

> Hi!

>> Seems like you are answering lot of questions about namespaces lately
>> with "that's not how the model was designed".

> Not really, and it's not the reason, the reason why it wasn't designed 
> that way was explained before and was explained again.

>> Guess it should have been designed in the open to begin with.

> It was. Just a lot of people couldn't care less until it is a day before 
> feature freeze and then they wake up and want whole thing rewritten from 
> scratch, and don't even take time to think about what their changes 
> really mean and how it is going to work with all other parts of the 
> language. Namespaces is not the only case btw.

Well partly right. No one cared when those several patches were developed.
Ever since one was finally submitted people tried to discuss the
implementation and behavioral differences. And you turned any discussion
attempt down for various reason. Like saying it was dicussed before, like
accusing people that they didn't care early enough and by saying that stuff
would be discussed once everything is finalized becasue apparently the
first submit wasn't supposed to be completely ready. Especially with that
in mind people were waiting for a hands up and starting adiscussion on the
finalized model from the developers. Nothing like that ever happened so all
people that weren't really happy could do nothing else then wait for alpha
releases which is the perfect time to experiement and figure out issues.
Actually even without any of the history of this particular feature in mind
- any new feature as big and as influentual as namespace has to be reviewed
and tried out in the alpha versions - that is why we have alpha versions
just as any other reasonable software application. But maybe you just want
to release what we have right now without any further testing periode and
have once again the end users suffer in production. Haven't we learned
anything, I thought we had.

Best regards,
 Marcus