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Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:54:15 -0700
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To: Gregory Beaver <greg@chiaraquartet.net>
CC: Lukas Kahwe Smith <mls@pooteeweet.org>, Stanislav Malyshev <stas@zend.com>,
        Marcus Boerger <helly@php.net>, internals@lists.php.net
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Inconsistencies in 5.3
From: rasmus@lerdorf.com (Rasmus Lerdorf)

Gregory Beaver wrote:
> Lukas Kahwe Smith wrote:
>> On 13.08.2008, at 22:18, Stanislav Malyshev wrote:
>>
>>> Simply include a script from two locations with different namespaces
>>> or one
>>>> with namespace and the otherone without.
>>> I'm afraid you misunderstand how namespaces work. As I explained
>>> numerous times, namespaces are file-local, and this when including
>>> file, it does not matter a bit what was including context.
>> I think Marcus is talking about files that are included that do not
>> specify a namespace explicitly. In this situation the context does matter.
>>
>> We do not know if the developer in question is aware that the context
>> would matter in this case. Actually like I said in a previous email it
>> would be nice to at least not throw a warning if the file that is
>> included specifies an explicit namespace (I assume that is possible?).
>> Maybe adding a new "include" is a solution. This way developers can say
>> explicitly what they want to do without having to suppress the warning.
>> Then again quickly some smartass developer is going to teach people that
>> these annoying warnings go away if you just use this new include
>> everywhere. Then again, I am not sure if I even have my head wrapped
>> around this entire namespace thing.
>
> Hi,
>
> Currently, if you include a file within a class method that contains
> function definitions, they remain functions outside the class.  If you
> include a file that contains a class.
>
> In short, only global cpde is executed in the scope, and there is no
> precedent in PHP to redefine re-usable elements based on scope.
>
> Why would namespaces be any different?  This whole argument makes no
> sense to me.

Well, it depends how you view the scope.  If you include a file that 
defines a variable from within a function or a method, that variable 
becomes function-scoped, not global.  In the case of a namespaced 
function or method including a file containing functions or classes, 
those classes become global.  That has, of course, always been the case, 
but we haven't had the concept of a namespace context before and we 
haven't had anything that was file-scoped like this.  So people might 
extrapolate from the function-context case to this and assume the wrong 
thing.  That's what Marcus' patch it about.

I happen to disagree with him and I think we should just write really 
good docs explaining how namespaces work and provide a lot of examples.

-Rasmus