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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 02:36:41 +0200
Reply-To: Marcus Boerger <helly@php.net>
Message-ID: <628549763.20080812023641@marcus-boerger.de>
To: Stanislav Malyshev <stas@zend.com>
CC: Elizabeth M Smith <auroraeosrose@gmail.com>, internals@lists.php.net
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Inconsistencies in 5.3
From: helly@php.net (Marcus Boerger)

Hello Stanislav,

Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 1:34:49 AM, you wrote:

> Hi!

>> "I don't want braces because people would think it acts like C++" is as
>> silly as saying "I don't want the current namespace Foo; syntax because
>> people will think it acts like python"

> Errr... as far as I know Python has no "namespace Foo;" syntax. And as I 
> repeated numerous times, the syntax should be driven primarily by 
> function, not by what decision some guys (even very smart guys) took 
> when they designed entirely different language. The function of PHP 
> namespaces makes {} make little sense, since {} implies bounded (and 
> potentially nested) scope, that is repeatable and has "inside" and 
> "outside".

>> Thinking as a new user...
>> How is
>> namespace foo;
>> semantically different from
>> class foo {}
>> or even
>> function foo {}

> 1. Namespace is a tag on the entities defined inside this file, function 
> is not. Class can be viewed as such, kind of, but it'd be very limiting 
> view (class is more than just tag on set of function names).
> 2. Class and function exist as stand-alone entity, namespace does not.
> 3. There can be context outside class/function in this file, but not 
> outside namespace.

>> I'm defining something yes?  With stuff basically "inside it".  Yes an
>> oversimplification, but the strength of PHP has always been simple.  So
>> why should it act differently?  Why does it need different syntax to
>> define something?

> Well, it should act differently for the same reason class and function 
> act differently - because they are different things. ITYM "why the 
> should _look_ differently?". As I said, that is because for them to look 
> the same would be to imply things about namespaces that are not true.

>> But at the end of the day this is all personal preference.  Just
>> remember the poor people who have to teach this to the new users ;)

> I can help with that. Here's world's shortest course on PHP namespaces:

> 1. To define namespace for the file, write "namespace Foo::Bar;" at the 
> beginning of the file.
> 2. That's it, enjoy. ;)

3. You want another namespace, just write namespace again.

4. You got lost after the 10th namespace? Welcome to if-else nesting
ambiguty all over again.

Some coding style guides force curly braces for if-else for a reason.


Best regards,
 Marcus