Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:39252
Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm
Received-SPF: unknown (pb1.pair.com: domain php.net does not designate 208.83.222.18 as permitted sender)
Message-ID: <4887D617.2010300@php.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:08:39 -0400
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.14 (Windows/20080421)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Stanislav Malyshev <stas@zend.com>
CC: Lukas Kahwe Smith <mls@pooteeweet.org>, 
 PHP Developers Mailing List <internals@lists.php.net>,
 Dmitry Stogov <dmitry@zend.com>
References: <ADD0525F-F900-4F3A-9B76-1ED332CA31E0@pooteeweet.org> <486FA5FB.1000300@php.net> <4872B5D4.1000205@zend.com> <4877CE04.4070104@chiaraquartet.net> <487F880B.2090002@zend.com> <6A0D6007-9076-466B-9AF8-018451145466@pooteeweet.org> <487F96E0.1050208@zend.com>
In-Reply-To: <487F96E0.1050208@zend.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: towards a 5.3 release
From: cellog@php.net (Greg Beaver)

Stanislav Malyshev wrote:
> Hi!
> 
>> Of course its predictable. What Greg meant is "error prone". The 
>> difference is if we want to by default lower the chance of programming 
>> mistakes or ensure maximum performance with little effort for users 
>> with autoload (and long include path lists).
> 
> I think silent performance disaster is much worse than error message 
> which makes it obvious what the mistake was.

Me too.  This is the problem I am referring to:

a.php:
<?php
namespace Foo;
class Exception {}
?>

b.php:
<?php
namespace Foo;
class A {
     function __construct() {throw new Exception('hi');}
}
?>

c.php:
<?php
function autoload($a)
{
include 'a.php'; // bogus, but you get the point
}
include 'b.php';
try {
$a = new Foo::A;
} catch (Foo::Exception $e) {
    echo "caught\n";
}
?>

The above code will throw an ::Exception, not a Foo::Exception.  With 
the proposed change, it works as advertised.  This code:

<?php
include 'a.php';
include 'b.php';
try {
$a = new A;
} catch (Foo::Exception $e) {
    echo "caught\n";
}
?>

throws a Foo::Exception and echoes "caught", demonstrating the 
importance of load order as well.

This is *far* from an obvious error message, it is a silent logic error 
that is far more serious than a silent performance problem.

Stas, your response is quite frustrating to this problem and fits a 
pattern.  It seems the default response is always "no" or "that's not a 
real problem" and is almost always condescending.  It makes it extremely 
difficult to have an intelligent debate with you.  If you don't think 
something is a real problem, perhaps a better default response is "why 
does this person think it is an issue and I don't?"  The impression your 
response gives is that your first thought is instead "why is XXX such an 
idiot who must waste my time?"  I know you well enough to know that this 
is not what you're thinking, but it would save a lot of time if we can 
skip the "what the hell" stage and move right to "let's verify this and 
fix it" or "more evidence needed, I see your point but what about XX?"

Thanks,
Greg