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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:04:48 +0400
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To: Lukas Kahwe Smith <mls@pooteeweet.org>
CC: Stanislav Malyshev <stas@zend.com>, 
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: towards a 5.3 release
From: dmitry@zend.com (Dmitry Stogov)

Hi,

Please show me the patch before commit (the last patch I saw wasn't good 
enough).

Thanks. Dmitry.

Lukas Kahwe Smith wrote:
> 
> On 17.07.2008, at 20:03, Stanislav Malyshev wrote:
> 
>> Hi!
>>
>>> Greg's argument seems sound to me. With the proposed change errors 
>>> are less likely and more transparent in case they happen (for people 
>>> using
>>
>> No, they won't be transparent at all. If you use Exception and forget 
>> to put "use ::Exception" in each and every of your files, you get 
>> exhaustive search of include path (not helped by bytecode caching, btw 
>> - all bytecode caches I know cache existing files, not searches for 
>> non-existing ones) on each mention of Exception. You can not see it - 
>> on the surface, everything works fine. Then, when you think your code 
>> is fine, you run profiler and boom - you see 200 file accesses where 
>> there should be none.
>>
>>> autoload that is). At the same time people who care about performance 
>>> can still work around this behavior (then again those that care about 
>>> optimizations on this level probably do not use autload to begin with).
>>
>> What's wrong with autoload? You sound like autoload is somehow 
>> contrary to performance, which is not true.
>>
>>> So I guess the point is .. autoload is there for convinience, so lets 
>>> make it as convinient as possible.
>>
>> I don't see how having internal class mention trigger exhaustive 
>> autoload search is "as convenient as possible". For me, it is a huge 
>> landmine under every PHP application trying to use namespaces - forget 
>> one use statement and boom, your performance is gone. If you want to 
>> do that, you better force using ::Class everywhere - this way at least 
>> there's a way to know where it will blow up without running system 
>> call traces on every piece of code.
> 
> For this issue it seems like there is nobody that has enough "inertia" 
> to change the current status quo. As such it seems to me like we should 
> go to alpha1 as is. I hope that namespaces have enough buzz that we 
> quickly get feedback after alpha1. We should do as much encouragement to 
> get people to test namespaces as possible.
> 
> At the moment namespaces is probably the feature that makes me most 
> nervous. Followed by GC and the re2c change.
> 
> regards,
> Lukas Kahwe Smith
> mls@pooteeweet.org
> 
> 
>