Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:36314
Return-Path: <lester@lsces.co.uk>
Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm
Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net
Received: (qmail 62603 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2008 08:13:55 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1)
  by localhost with SMTP; 22 Mar 2008 08:13:55 -0000
Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=lester@lsces.co.uk; sender-id=unknown
Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=lester@lsces.co.uk; spf=permerror; sender-id=unknown
Received-SPF: error (pb1.pair.com: domain lsces.co.uk from 213.123.20.119 cause and error)
X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: lester@lsces.co.uk
X-Host-Fingerprint: 213.123.20.119 c2bthomr01.btconnect.com  
Received: from [213.123.20.119] ([213.123.20.119:2655] helo=c2bthomr01.btconnect.com)
	by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP
	id 13/0F-26785-1CFB4E74 for <internals@lists.php.net>; Sat, 22 Mar 2008 03:13:53 -0500
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (host81-138-11-136.in-addr.btopenworld.com [81.138.11.136])
	by c2bthomr01.btconnect.com
	with ESMTP id IXB40008;
	Sat, 22 Mar 2008 08:13:50 GMT
Message-ID: <47E4C03B.2020208@lsces.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 08:15:55 +0000
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.8) Gecko/20071009 SeaMonkey/1.1.5
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
References: <47E3F714.60302@zend.com>  <883216194.20080321193140@marcus-boerger.de>  <47E40848.1060103@zend.com> <47E40C3F.8040601@sci.fi>  <47E40E6E.5030103@zend.com> <47E410C6.80605@sci.fi>  <47E4146A.8010409@zend.com> <fe05d1540803211313j22578632rfabe22f53592eb6d@mail.gmail.com> <47E41765.4080007@zend.com> <111239762.20080321212310@marcus-boerger.de> <47E41C9F.4040105@zend.com> <935033306.20080321223836@marcus-boerger.de> <68.F2.26785.55E24E74@pb1.pair.com> <47E450B1.9040604@lerdorf.com>
In-Reply-To: <47E450B1.9040604@lerdorf.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/50, host=c2bthomr01.btconnect.com
X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown,
	refid=str=0001.0A010202.47E4BFBE.005F,ss=1,fgs=0,
	ip=127.0.0.1,
	so=2007-10-30 19:00:17,
	dmn=5.4.3/2008-02-01
X-Junkmail-IWF: false
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] short_open_tag
From: lester@lsces.co.uk (Lester Caine)

Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
> There are a bunch of factors here.  In the end it comes down to the 
> purists vs. the pragmatists.  You all know where I fall on that one. 
> <?php is for the purists and <? and <?= still exists for the pragmatists.
> 
> Now, someone mentioned <?php= which I am completely against as it breaks 
> the purist side.  A PI tag is defined as <?<label><whitespace> and I am 
> pretty sure the PI label names can't contain '='.  <?php was added and 
> adopted in order to be correct, let's not break that correctness.
> 
> Most of the arguments I have seen are basically saying <? is evil and it 
> shouldn't even exist, but that isn't the current question.  It does 
> exist, and we aren't removing it, so the only real argument here is the 
> WTF factor introduced by code that is able to enabled or disable these 
> tags on the fly.  That's the one and only valid argument I have seen. 

I think I'm a purist pragmatist ;)

I HAVE been moving to <?php but I've still got a lot of code that is <?. 
Having just taken a close look at the differences, the main thing is that all 
the old code has lots of in line html and adding 'php' everywhere ( actually 
4500 hits ) will make it even more difficult to read. However *I* am the only 
person using that code, and simply remembering to switch back on short tags on 
a new installation allows the old stuff to work.

All my new work is going via bitweaver and I was a little surprised to find 
only 10 <? entries in the whole of the code base, since it's using smarty to 
pump out the html. And most of those seem to be either mistakes - '<? php' or 
are actually in SQL - and wrong :)

An hour ago I would have said I needed <? but now I'm more than happy that 
since *I* am being dragged the right way by the other bitweaver members - <? 
will become a thing of the past for me. HOWEVER quick and dirty pages will no 
doubt come out of the shop here simply because there are so many quite complex 
pages in the archive and I'm not sure a global convert - while easy to do - is 
appropriate.

Bottom line. Global does not work for me - yet, directory level does and I 
can't see any logical reason now for switching on and off at will. If it's in 
a short tag directory that will do for me - now I just need to actually do that :)

-- 
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-----------------------------
Contact - http://home.lsces.co.uk/lsces/wiki/?page=contact
L.S.Caine Electronic Services - http://home.lsces.co.uk
EnquirySolve - http://enquirysolve.com/
Model Engineers Digital Workshop - http://medw.co.uk//
Firebird - http://www.firebirdsql.org/index.php