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Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:31:59 +0100
Cc: "Pierre Joye" <pierre.php@gmail.com>,
 "Christopher Jones" <christopher.jones@oracle.com>,
  <pdo@lists.php.net>,
 "PHP Internals" <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [PDO] Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] An Idea for PDO 2
From: mls@pooteeweet.org (Lukas Kahwe Smith)


On 14.02.2008, at 04:04, Steph Fox wrote:

>> Tell us the names of these entities, companies or persons, who are
>> going to contribute and what are actually their requirements. What
>> will they bring (saying "expertise" is not something I can buy)? I
>> don't understand what is so hard to understand that it is a minimum  
>> to
>> get before we can even discuss the CLA introduction. Let alone the
>> fact that they don't consider us as good enough as discussions
>> partner.
>
> Pierre does have a point here. We don't know who we're dealing with,  
> what they can/could offer, or what they want or need in order to  
> offer it.. and nobody's really tried to communicate with php.net  
> apart from those already in the php.net inner circle.

Right, we know Wez, we know Andi, we know you. We know more and more  
of the guys working on tests, we know know at least the emails of some  
of the guys working on the currently CLA'ed IBM PDO drivers. I have  
seen some Microsoft guys at some conferences. But I have never talked  
to one in the context of PDO development. We also do not know who will  
be coming from inside Oracle to work with us if we go the CLA way. We  
do not know who will come from inside IBM to work with us etc. OSS is  
a collaborative process that is not about some manager allocating some  
ressources here and there. People usually make personal commitments  
here and maybe this is the bigger culture clash than the CLA. What is  
being proposed is to turn part of PHP into something that is managed  
by a manager and the budget he gets allocated by a manager above him.

People do not commit access for saying what company they work for.  
People get commit access once they have send enough patches that are  
top notch, that php.net decides they can trust them. This is the model  
of trust we have gone by. So if we are going to change this to start  
trusting a managerial process, the least we can ask is to have some  
interaction with the people that will most likely be involved there,  
even if there is a good chance that things might be shuffled around by  
the time we get to see code.

regards,
Lukas