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Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 21:45:59 +0100
Reply-To: Marcus Boerger <helly@php.net>
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To: Lukas Kahwe Smith <mls@pooteeweet.org>
CC: "Steph Fox" <steph@zend.com>, "Lester Caine" <lester@lsces.co.uk>, 
	"PHP internals" <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Splitting the subject: the PECL/PHP relationship
From: helly@php.net (Marcus Boerger)

Hello Lukas,

  same here. I proposed php-src with absolute minimum. And php-default as
the release state. Where the RM has the last say in what goes in and what
not.

The rest of the discussion is once again how easy it is to get more than the
default distribution onto hosters machines. But a) I couldn't care less, b)
it is absolutely a discussion on its own and can addressed somewhere and
somewhen else.

marcus

Sunday, February 3, 2008, 7:05:07 PM, you wrote:

> On 03.02.2008, at 18:24, Steph Fox wrote:

>> Hi Marcus,
>>
>>> Anyway my idea is to start everything in PECL and
>>> to to move everything out that can be moved out. And that includes  
>>> all MySQL
>>> extensions as well as SQLite. Only this way people will use the PELC
>>> infrastructure. Otherwise we would just reduce functionality of  
>>> PHP. And btw
>>> nearly all linux distributions today offer a bunch of PECL  
>>> extensions, and
>>> for windows we offer DLLs for most PECL extensions for a long time  
>>> now.
>>
>> The problem with this, as I wrote earlier, is that people relying on  
>> hosting can't use them, and hosts tend not to know as much as they  
>> could about PHP or its extensions. There does need to be a basic  
>> agreement here about what PHP is without any additions. IMHO that  
>> should be the minimum necessary to build a simple website, ie even  
>> if your host knows nothing about PHP it's still possible to do  
>> something useful with it. I suggested SQLite as a way of ensuring  
>> that there is _some_ database in PHP regardless of whether the host  
>> has added something or not. PDO should be built-in anyway. Neither  
>> is the case under doze @ present - both are separate entities that  
>> have to be explicitly enabled, i.e. there is no intrinsic database  
>> support in PHP. And yes, you do get Windows hosting these days.
>>
>> Also, we can't rely on linux distributions/the availability of DLLs  
>> on php.net for distribution. There needs to be a single simple cross- 
>> platform method for getting hold of extensions for PHP - but I think  
>> Greg's so close to achieving that, it isn't really an issue. The  
>> problem of zero QA, is.

> I am not sure if I misunderstood some other persons proposal, but at  
> least my proposal was that the final thing we ship as version xyz of  
> PHP would include a set of PECL extensions along with core that we  
> deem as necessary for the bulk of our users solving the web problem.

> As such we could even publish a list of additional extensions we  
> recommend to hosters to also install, though the question is if we can  
> also QA them as part of the release process.

> regards,
> Lukas




Best regards,
 Marcus