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To: Tomi Kaistila <tomi@cumulo.fi>
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Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 08:27:38 -0500
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RE: Optional scalar type hinting
From: sam@sambarrow.com (Sam Barrow)

On Fri, 2008-01-04 at 10:06 +0200, Tomi Kaistila wrote:
> > It really doesn't fit in very well with PHP's loosely typed nature which
> > is one of the main reasons it has been so easy to use.
> I think this is one of the cornerstones that two sides disagree the most on. 
> People are afraid that PHP would turn into a strong-typed language by 
> allowing type hinting for scalar values. I do not think this would be the 
> case. You would still have all the freedom that you have no with PHP, since 
> PHP's type juggling is still in effect.
> 
> The only thing that would change is that the validation of the data that is 
> passed into functions would be somewhat automated, but since the validation 
> occurs with or without type hinting the result is still the same. If data is 
> incorrent, an error occurs whether it is an exception, a false return type, 
> or a triggered error. The behaviour of the program does not change with type 
> hinting.

Exactly. This is not strict typing. It's type hinting (key word,
hinting).

> > Even this thread shows that there's no alignment between people on what
> > it should actually do.
> This is true, but contributed to it is that so far we have spent more time and 
> energy on the silly debate whether or not type hinting is a useful feature. 
> There is enough technical proof to suggest that it is in fact a useful 
> feature.
> 
> What I would like to see is actual discussion on how it should behave and see 
> if a concensus can be derived.
> 
> > Saying that it won't confuse newbies is also wrong. PHP is so popular
> > because it's so easy for people to pick up. Part of this also includes
> > ability to look at other people's code, understand it, copy-on-write
> > (e.g. a Wordpress plug-in).
> This is an argument that I honestly do not understand. Type hinting is already 
> here. It exists in PHP. How can the concept be abandoned on the bases that it 
> would confuse new users, if the concept has already been approved and 
> implemented?
> 

Exactly, array and class type hints are actually more confusing than
scalar type hints. What's more confusing to a beginner, having to pass
an instance of a certain object to a function, or having to pass a
number or string?

> 
> Tomi Kaistila
> PHP Developer
>