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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Internals read-only
From: ron@Opus1.COM (Ronald Chmara)


On Dec 13, 2007, at 6:17 AM, rich gray wrote:

> If this suggestion from Jani is supported then all I can say is WTF  
> a bunch of prima donnas you internals/core devs are ... You don't  
> want to listen to your users who are in most cases NOT technically  
> ignorant and are in the trenches using your product and trying to  
> make a living?

My php.net dev number is #181. I've been actively, and passively,  
involved with the project since 2000 or so, to the point where I'm  
listed in the manual credentials. My first PHP project was converting  
~14K files from PHP2/FI to PHP 3. So, I'd say that I've seen quite a  
bit of the PHP history, and I've actually invested quite a chunk of  
my life (and occasionally cash) into it.

I think what Jani is proposing is certainly worth consideration, to  
cut down on external flames, rantings, musings, etc. ...

... But that's kind of how we've *always* done things on this project  
(and it's apparently worked). Here's the normal workflow:

Some core dev, or some random end user, throws an idea out, and we  
debate.

We argue.

We create differing implementations....

....and then we argue and debate some more.

(To paraphrase an old joke, if there are two PHP developers in a  
room, there are at least 3 opinions.)

Differing voices are granted different weights, and the goal is that  
the *best* ideas win.

Over the years, the 10-50 "core" PHP folks have gotten familiar with  
the mindsets, strengths, and weaknesses of the (*many*) others in the  
overall project. Voices from "outside" are not nearly as understood,  
or as helpful, in advancing the debate, *until* they are understood  
on the same level.

 From what I gather, Jani wants to improve the *quality* of debate,  
by reducing down the *quantity* of debate. That's simply the way Jani  
thinks, and is part of what he brings, as a strength, to the larger  
PHP team, in that he tries to focus on *high-relevance targets*. He's  
not being a prima donna, he actually "doing his job", by trying to  
make sure that the signal to noise ratio is low, and thus, core dev  
is more efficient.

All that being said, I like Jani's idea.... to a certain extent. I  
think that folks like Tim Starling *should* be allowed a voice in the  
debates, as he's running a high-profile site, regardless of any  
personal CVS activity. OTOH, foo@example.com may have a good point,  
but have no idea of the underlying issues, and thus, contribute zero  
intellectual content to the debate.

-Bop