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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:19:40 +0000
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] namespace improvements to be committed very soon -final
 review
From: nrixham@gmail.com (Nathan Rixham)

 > if their income depends on it, hmm, I wonder, why the hell are they
 > only complaining?
point well made

 > always been open and we have always gladly given account to
 > people who contributed.
and it's been well noticed, not to mention the amount of times you have 
to repeat yourself. Particularly over namespaces!

I used to work in a company that had been going for years, and they had 
something that affected staff called the "ibean", or "ay been" or 
translated "it's always been" - People don't like change. If only there 
was a way to filter through only constructive critism..

Regards Nathan

Marcus Boerger wrote:
> Hello Nathan,
> 
>   if their income depends on it, hmm, I wonder, why the hell are they only
> complaining? The amount of people being constructive and not actual
> developers with a php.net account is close to zero. That is what Jani had in
> mind. We have always been open and we have always gladly given account to
> people who contributed.
> 
> marcus
> 
> Wednesday, December 12, 2007, 11:45:23 AM, you wrote:
> 
>> Surely the noise coming from outside are people's valid opinions? I mean 
>> it's the people making the noise who have to live with decisions made on 
>> the internals list, on a daily basis, and for most there income depends 
>> on it.
> 
>> It's not just php you're discussing, it's thousands of developers 
>> working environment.. think of changes like this as somebody coming in 
>> and cleaning your pc and files structure up for you, yeah they're trying 
>> to help, but you had your files where you wanted them already..
> 
>> No Offense and agreed on the spam issue!
> 
>> Nathan
> 
>> Jani Taskinen wrote:
>>> Nice to hear some work is done but I get very annoyed every time I see
>>> the words "behind the scenes" (or something alike). I guess it was
>>> because it's impossible to discuss anything on internals without the
>>> noise coming from "outside"..? Could we finally make this list read-only
>>> for every one but the @php.net people? I get enough spam already, spam
>>> from this list is not something everyone should suffer from.
>>>
>>> --Jani
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 17:13 -0600, Gregory Beaver wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I've been furiously working behind the scenes with Stas and Dmitry, and
>>>> have some enhancements to namespaces in the form of 2 patches.
>>>>
>>>> 1) multiple namespaces per file
>>>> 2) use ::name;
>>>>
>>>> 1) multiple namespaces per file
>>>>
>>>> This is implemented as such:
>>>>
>>>> <?php
>>>> namespace one;
>>>> use Blah::A;
>>>> // code
>>>> namespace two;
>>>> use Foo::A;
>>>> ?>
>>>>
>>>> The example above shows that imported names are reset at each namespace
>>>> declaration.  There is no prohibition on this code:
>>>>
>>>> <?php
>>>> namespace one; {
>>>> use Blah::A;
>>>> // code
>>>> }
>>>> namespace two; {
>>>> use Foo::A;
>>>> // code
>>>> }
>>>> ?>
>>>>
>>>> Users who wish to use brackets may do so.  The performance penalty
>>>> imposed by using brackets is minor for some cases, and for users who are
>>>> following the recommended practice of 1 namespace per file, the syntax
>>>> is ideal.
>>>>
>>>> Patch is:
>>>>
>>>> http://pear.php.net/~greg/namespace/PHP_5_3/multi.patch.txt
>>>> http://pear.php.net/~greg/namespace/PHP_6_0/multi.patch.txt
>>>>
>>>> Note that non-namespaced code cannot be present in a file containing
>>>> namespaces.  For users who are bundling, this will mean you will need to
>>>> create 2 files, one with non-namespaced code, and one with namespaced
>>>> code.  This minor prohibition is a design decision, not a technical
>>>> problem in the implementation.
>>>>
>>>> 2) use ::name
>>>>
>>>> This code:
>>>>
>>>> <?php
>>>> namespace Whatever;
>>>> use MDB2; // import PEAR's ::MDB2 from global scope
>>>> $a = MDB2::connect();
>>>> ?>
>>>>
>>>> is currently impossible, which will make namespacing old code harder. 
>>>> The patch introduces this new syntax to import names from the global
>>>> namespace:
>>>>
>>>> <?php
>>>> use ::MDB2, ::strlen as len;
>>>> ?>
>>>>
>>>> http://pear.php.net/~greg/namespace/PHP_5_3/use.patch.txt
>>>> http://pear.php.net/~greg/namespace/PHP_6_0/use.patch.txt
>>>>
>>>> These patches are for review of both serious technical and serious
>>>> implementation issues.  In order to help move things along, I'd like to
>>>> define "serious" as something directly related to the implementation
>>>> that would cause a failure in PHP's ability to run scripts
>>>> deterministically, or some kind of memory leak/crash.
>>>>
>>>> commit is planned for the next 24 hours or so, but of course any issues
>>>> found in review can be fixed.  The patches are short, so in the worst
>>>> case, reverting is not difficult.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Greg
>>>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
>  Marcus