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Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2007 13:49:49 -0500
To: "Stanislav Malyshev" <stas@zend.com>
Cc: "Derick Rethans" <derick@php.net>, 
	"PHP Developers Mailing List" <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Namespace
From: dohpaz@gmail.com ("Ken Stanley")

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On Dec 5, 2007 12:54 PM, Stanislav Malyshev <stas@zend.com> wrote:

> (I don't know how to make it more clear - should I
> use blinking text, flash graphics and pictures of dancing girls/boys in
> bikinis?)


Stas, that is immature, rude, and completely uncalled for; fine, you are
frustrated with our questions and arguments. Comments like this creates
frustration on our part with the developers. Friction like this could easily
be avoided with a little more tact and diplomacy. Now, about those pictures
of those dancing girls in bikinis.... (that last part, FYI, was for
brevity).


> - it is *NOT* to allow you shoving all your library classes
> into global space and in some magic way make same names mean different
> classes by telepathically reading your mind. The purpose of namespaces
> is to make working with long names - necessary to avoid collisions -
> easier, by enabling not always use the whole long name but sometimes
> only a part of it.
>

I understand this point very well Stas. If I misinterpreted how namespaces
work with names that exist both in the namespace and the global space, then
I sincerely apologize to you and anybody else who got offended by my
misinformation. I, like you, am simply concerned with people misusing this
powerful feature in a way that causes more problems for me as a developer
and maintainer of PHP code.


> > Globbing of this nature, in my humbled opinion, would not be the best
> idea
> > because of the high potential of problems. But, in the same respect,
> with
>
> That's *exactly* why it was dropped. More precisely, it is one of the
> reasons - other being it would break lookup performance and bytecode
> caches.


FWIW, I think that was a good decision. :)


>
> > I think this is a huge issue, if only for consistency with other
> constructs
> > of the language. There are already three different ways to write an
>
> Guys, really, how many times should we beat this particular dead horse?


As many times as it takes. Seriously though, I see a lot of posts here that
have people asking for braces. To be fair, I see equally as many posts
asking to not have them, and then there are the ones that don't care either
way. So really, I don't think this issue is completely dead. But, that is
just my personal opinion. I concede this point as an agreement to disagree.
:)


>
>
> > The only difference, on the surface, that I see with namespaces vs.
> standard
> > prefixing is that namespaces has a new keyword and changes the separator
> > from an underscore to the double colon. Beyond that, without the other
>
> Well, I think reading the actual docs would help to see more. Besides
> that, namespaces allow aliasing of prefixes and automatic prefixing.
>

You are right. Despite my continued following of this list, I failed to
realize that the PHP docs included information on namespaces.


>
> > For what it's worth, I would have to completely agree with Derick on
> this
> > issue. It just seems that namespaces could be made to do much more than
> it
> > already does.
>
> Leaving braces aside (please!), what capabilities that were not
> discussed before do you need?


I know you don't like to hear this Stas, but braces are pretty important --
at the very least, to me. I also believe that having multiple namespaces in
a single file would be very beneficial for the many various reasons
discussed on this list. Other than that, I truly feel that the addition of
namespaces is a great addition to the language. Please do not construe my
e-mail in a negative tone. That was not my intention at all. I do not have
the attitude of "take it or leave it". I just felt compelled to offer my
feelings on the matter as just another voice from userland. :)


>
> --
> Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Software Architect
> stas@zend.com   http://www.zend.com/
> (408)253-8829   MSN: stas@zend.com
>



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It looked like something resembling white marble, which was
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               -- Douglas Adams, "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"

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