Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:33743
Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm
Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain zend.com designates 212.25.124.162 as permitted sender)
Message-ID: <4756E3AF.2070703@zend.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:45:19 -0800
Organization: Zend Technologies
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.9 (Windows/20071031)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Derick Rethans <derick@php.net>
CC: PHP Developers Mailing List <internals@lists.php.net>
References: <alpine.DEB.0.98.0712042315260.20300@kossu.ez.no> <4755FB31.2050901@zend.com> <alpine.DEB.0.98.0712050940550.20300@kossu.ez.no>
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.0.98.0712050940550.20300@kossu.ez.no>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Dropping Namespace
From: stas@zend.com (Stanislav Malyshev)

> some people like a "misguided" implementation of namespaces. The idea of 
> namespaces is to prevent collisions in USER land code, not turning 
> internal PHP classes into a pile of goo.

Yes, idea of namespaces is not to turn PHP classes into a pile of goo. 
But what's your point?

> I don't quite understand why allowing multiple namespaces is such a big 
> issue, however - it won't solve the naming collision issue.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "multiple namespaces" - 
multiple namespaces per file? I object to allowing it for reasons having 
absolutely nothing to do with naming collisions, as anybody bothering to 
actually read what I wrote would immediately know.

>> That's because namespaces are not executable blocks.
> 
> Neither are classes.

Your point being?

> No, but, do you really need to have such long names? And besides that, 

Yes. Such names are hard fact of life, I have seen them in many 
applications and libraries, and I have heard developers to complain 
about it.

> you *have* to keep repeating them in every file you'd want to use them - 

Once per file, yes. Much better than having to spell out all the long 
names every time.

  > Just saying "Yes, they are" is not a very good argument - actually, 
it's
> not an argument at all. 

No more and no less than "I wonder if they are useful, let's just delete 
them".

> Actually, it's exactly the opposite, as I avoid naming colissions 
> (point 1), I don't need to import every class I want to use (point 2), 
> and can group all my classes together in one file (point 3).

Of course, if you don't want to hear about namespaces, nobody can force 
you. However, all of your points (avoiding naming collisions, not 
needing to import every class you want to use and ability to group 
classes together) is exactly how namespaces work right now. If you 
refuse to learn about it, it can't be helped, however that just means 
you deny yourself a very useful tool.

-- 
Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Software Architect
stas@zend.com   http://www.zend.com/
(408)253-8829   MSN: stas@zend.com