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Reply-To: "Steph Fox" <steph@zend.com>
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	"Rob Richards" <rrichards@ctindustries.net>
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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 14:04:48 -0000
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Providing Visual Studio 2005 builds (again)
From: steph@zend.com ("Steph Fox")

Hi Richard,

> It would be useful to see some stats about actual performance
> increases from using the new runtime. If it is minimal, then
> cost/benifit isn't great and we are probably going to have to
> "make-do" for a while on VC6.

Agree.

> But, if MSVC2005EE (Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Express Edition -
> specifically chosen because of the "free" nature of the product -
> giving more opportunity to us unfortunates who have to normally pay
> for all of our development tools to "have a go" at building our own
> PHP binaries), offers a significant performance increase, then this is
> the marketing tool we use.

'marketing tool'???

> Sure, we will have to explain why you need to install a runtime
> library, but this is windows.

And these are Windows users.

Windows users unknowningly install the
> latest runtime all the time. Many MSI installers have them there
> simply because that is the safest way to install it and have you app
> run.
>
> Sure it makes the binary package bigger, so you have 2 packages - one
> with and one without. You make the recommendation that you have the
> "with" package if you are not sure of the difference.
>
> Even at this current time, PHP is relying on the presence of a runtime
> library. It just so happens that it is so ancient that it is not
> possible to be on windows without it.

'Relies on the presence of' is not the same thing as 'distributes'. The 
runtime library we rely on the presence of has been shipped by MS since 
Windows 98.

> So, give 'Liz the space. Please. So those of us who will benefit from
> her expertise can do so.

Where did anyone say she should have no space?
>
> I really feel that the core developers who only deal with *nix really
> should allow those that deal with windows be allowed to do so. It has
> no impact on *nix development other than making code compliant across
> multiple platforms (a good thing, surely?)

Couldn't agree more. Although actually most of the *nix guys have ended up 
having to load doze at some point because otherwise Windows bugs don't get 
tested/fixed.

> As a windows user I feel that we need to move forward and offer
> another binary which takes advantage of a more modern run time - if
> the benefit can be expressed.

Are you assuming a Windows user is a rarity? lol

- Steph