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Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 09:49:49 -0400
To: Hartmut Holzgraefe <hartmut@mysql.com>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] buildconf and the generated configure script for PHP6 is faulty [the fix].
From: buildsmart@daleenterprise.com (BuildSmart)

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On Sep 5, 2007, at 06:00:41, Hartmut Holzgraefe wrote:

> Hello Mr B*S*

hmm, not my name or my pseudonym but the remainder of this post  
appears to have been written by me, dyslexic are you?

>
>
>> The complaints over the 4 or 5 I have mentioned on the list has  
>> borne the remarks that I swamp the list with the reports, how it  
>> would be if I dumped a couple hundred?
>
> if you dumped them on the list you would end up in everyones ignore
> list as *the list is not the right communication channel for that*
>
> If the bug system is not the right place to put things then nothing  
> is.
>
> Is this really so hard to understand?

Are you so dumb that you can't grasp the concept that it has nothing  
to do with understanding what you're trying to point out?

>
>> To disregard the perception of the PHP software and it's  
>> developers is a stoic thought concept, since you have no issues  
>> accepting the concept that the majority of end users believe that  
>> the PHP software is a collection of cruft managed by a group of  
>> pompous programmers doesn't mean that the other developers share  
>> in this concept, image in a web-related world has value whether  
>> you give it any or not so airing everything isn't always the best  
>> policy.
>
> Talking about image, why are you trying *so* hard to ruin your own?

This doesn't ruin my image, the general opinion of me (as I'm told)  
is that I am actively and openly trying to help, unfortunately people  
like you are preventing this with flame tactics.

>
>> Rather than contribute to any negative thoughts and impressions  
>> that would be attained by submitting countless bug reports
>
> How do bug reports contribute to a negative impression? There is no
> bug free software. And having the known bugs tracked in the open
> instead of somewhere under the hood is is actually building trust
> instead of demolishing it IMHO
>
>> that would take  months if not years to process
>
> Did you try? where does this estimate come from?
> I see a lot of claims in your postings but only very
> little fact it is built upon

Examine the bug tracker, it appears it's a slow process for the  
majority of bugs related to Mac OS X.

>
>> or most likely just be ignored,
>
> One of the things that influences whether a bug is ignored
> or taken serious is the attitude of the reporter, too. Things
> that do not help with that:
>
>  - Insisting to push things to the wrong communication channels
>  - revealing the actual fix you claim to have only several
>    messages down the thread instead of right away
>  - not providing version information up front ... yes,
>    the autoconf version you were using was to be found in
>    the post somewhere ... but you ignored a very simple
>    and substantial rule that applies to all forms of
>    one-to-many communication: "the burden shall be on the
>    writer, not the readers"

It helps if the reader actual reads the post and sees the content you  
claim with the exception of providing the fix is present, I just  
reread the original post which contains the terminal session and it  
clearly displays my autoconf version so you might want to seek the  
services of an optometrist to correct your problem.

The reason that the fix was not included, the developers may have a  
different approach to this solution

>
>> I believe it's best to refrain from such submission unless it's  
>> absolutely critical.
>
> well, if you think so ...

I'm sorry that your ability to perceive more than the written word is  
non-existent.

>
> > This is going absolutely nowhere, I'm dropping out of this  
> discussion
> > to avoid retaliations due to bruised egos.
>
> Has there been a discussion? At least from your side it
> was mostly flaming IMHO. Anyway, i agree that this is not
> getting us anywhere. You've clearly shown that you want
> to have it your way and are not willing to adapt in any
> way ...

Everyone wants it there way, adaptation on my part has never been an  
issue, your perception of things is.

Flaming on your part only shows your lack of ability to actively  
participate in sensible communication, many already believe you to be  
an idiot, all you've succeeded in doing is validating this belief  
that so many of the non-publicly visible members of this list have of  
you who fear publicly posting and being subjected to your abusive  
nature.

When they think of your name they associate it with PHP and this  
taints the opinion that people have of PHP and it's dev group so it  
appears you are a major contributor to the poor image people have of  
PHP and the PHP dev group, way to go sherlock.

Yes, you can believe it, I have received many off-list responses from  
people who have offered this opinion of you and while attempting to  
give you the benefit of doubt, you have succeeded in making me  
believe exactly what these people have been telling me about you.

If you put 1/10th the energy you use in flaming people towards the  
PHP effort, you would be helping to advance things considerably  
faster by not wasting the valuable time of the reader who has to wade  
through this type of crap.

Now, if you have anything further to add, please refrain from  
cluttering the list and do so privately.

>
> -- 
> Hartmut Holzgraefe, Principal Support Engineer

- -- Dale


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