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Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 02:01:39 -0600
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Thread-Topic: [PHP-DEV] Question about Namespace patch
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References: <46A31D95.2080407@fischer.name> <46A42220.7010600@zend.com> <alpine.DEB.0.98.0707230854190.27483@kossu.ez.no> <E996AAF4A714DF4D9BD59E9418957A2128CD18@peak8sbs.peak8solutions.local> <46A45B12.80402@zend.com>
To: "Stanislav Malyshev" <stas@zend.com>
Cc: "Derick Rethans" <derick@php.net>,
	"Markus Fischer" <markus@fischer.name>,
	"internals" <internals@lists.php.net>
Subject: RE: [PHP-DEV] Question about Namespace patch
From: jeremy@peak8solutions.com ("Jeremy Privett")

Stanislav,

Absolutely not the case. Take a look at C++, C#, even Python. The
"namespaces" implementation of those languages is mostly consistent
(even if Python doesn't call it that).

You're not helping developers at all with this implementation. If you're
working with a large library and have to import a lot of classes, the
way this works is nothing but a pain. We would be better off not using
namespaces at all, in this case. Thus, the problem has not been solved.

Also, for the implementation to be complete, Core Developers and
Extension Developers would need to namespace their classes / functions.
And that, undoubtedly, is a LOT of work. I can understand this being the
justification for implementing namespaces in the way it's been
implemented, because all of this other stuff in the global namespace,
but you still need to offer developers *some* way of importing
everything out of a namespace. I absolutely will have upwards to close
to 25 - 30 classes in a single namespace. And sometimes more. To be able
to import them all is an absolute necessity for this implementation to
be remotely feasible. Having an import block at the top of files that's
that huge just doesn't make any sense. And that doesn't even consider
the fact that I may be using OTHER libraries as well that may be
namespaced.

PEAR is a perfect example of this. Look at all the libraries that exist
there. I would absolutely love to just:

import PEAR;
import PEAR::HTTP;
import PEAR::Image;

And not have to worry about going through and picking out every little
individual class that I need. And with all of the languages I mentioned
before, that is *exactly* how it works. Of course, we're back to the
namespacing of the PHP Core and Extensions. Which is really the main
blocker to any serious namespaces implementation, beyond what's
currently patched to HEAD today, correct?

I hope you can better see my viewpoint, now that I actually had the time
to sit down and type out a more coherent reply. This implementation and
the unicode.semantics discussion have to be the most frustrating points
PHP6 has for me, right now.

Thanks.

---
Jeremy Privett
Software Developer
Peak8 Solutions

-----Original Message-----
From: Stanislav Malyshev [mailto:stas@zend.com]=20
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 1:39 AM
To: Jeremy Privett
Cc: Derick Rethans; Markus Fischer; internals
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Question about Namespace patch

> And that's exactly why this implementation isn't intuitive. As far as
I
> can see from the way it's been explained, so far, that is not
possible.

No implementation is "intuitive", unless by "intuitive" you mean "works=20
as in that other language I know". Too bad in each of these languages it

works differently :)
--=20
Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Software Architect
stas@zend.com   http://www.zend.com/
(408)253-8829   MSN: stas@zend.com