Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:27002 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 10363 invoked by uid 1010); 15 Dec 2006 23:28:29 -0000 Delivered-To: ezmlm-scan-internals@lists.php.net Delivered-To: ezmlm-internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 10348 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2006 23:28:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 15 Dec 2006 23:28:29 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=stas@zend.com; spf=pass; sender-id=pass Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=stas@zend.com; sender-id=pass Received-SPF: pass (pb1.pair.com: domain zend.com designates 212.25.124.162 as permitted sender) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: stas@zend.com X-Host-Fingerprint: 212.25.124.162 mail.zend.com Linux 2.5 (sometimes 2.4) (4) Received: from [212.25.124.162] ([212.25.124.162:11292] helo=mail.zend.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 4A/75-10210-87F23854 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2006 18:28:28 -0500 Received: (qmail 31909 invoked from network); 15 Dec 2006 23:26:20 -0000 Received: from office.zend.office (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (192.168.16.109) by internal.zend.office with SMTP; 15 Dec 2006 23:26:20 -0000 Message-ID: <45832F71.2080503@zend.com> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 15:27:45 -0800 Organization: Zend Technologies User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ilia Alshanetsky CC: PHP internals References: <20061215201448.B16D8BC1AB@spike.porcupine.org> <7AE00699-23C2-4759-A50C-3D94199DA85A@prohost.org> <45831090.1000704@zend.com> <18A7CF93-7BFD-4764-847D-6C107A62875E@prohost.org> <45831A87.6050301@zend.com> <45832B9B.2080109@zend.com> <8BC86061-CCC5-45C3-8C40-92B06ADBB117@prohost.org> In-Reply-To: <8BC86061-CCC5-45C3-8C40-92B06ADBB117@prohost.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Run-time taint support proposal From: stas@zend.com (Stanislav Malyshev) > So you claim that without taint mode it is not possible to write safe > PHP code? Actually, I said exactly the opposite - if you write secure code, you do not need it. If you are concerned about your code potentially being buggy and do not want to rely only on your own smarts to avoid it - you need security tools. Tainting is one of such tools. > Tainting is a false security it makes you feel secure, when you aren't. Well, everything is false security then, because I know of no remotely accessible system that didn't have one or other way to circumvent the access control. Programs have bugs, passwords can be stolen or guessed, etc. So I would propose to move away from generic statements to something more concrete. > First its off in production and that's where all the hacks appear, it > will have holes due to unforeseen function usage, dynamic variables, > false untainting etc... You are saying tainting is no silver bullet? I couldn't agree more. But then again, nothing is :) > Good luck, I suppose on a base level it is entertaining seeing someone > bang their head against the wall time and time again. You could enjoy the entertainment or you could bring some tools and help bring the wall down :) Whatever you heart desires. -- Stanislav Malyshev, Zend Products Engineer stas@zend.com http://www.zend.com/