Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:26234 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 84422 invoked by uid 1010); 24 Oct 2006 18:55:16 -0000 Delivered-To: ezmlm-scan-internals@lists.php.net Delivered-To: ezmlm-internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 84407 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2006 18:55:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 24 Oct 2006 18:55:15 -0000 Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=helly@php.net; sender-id=unknown Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=helly@php.net; spf=permerror; sender-id=unknown Received-SPF: error (pb1.pair.com: domain php.net from 81.169.182.136 cause and error) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: helly@php.net X-Host-Fingerprint: 81.169.182.136 ajaxatwork.net Linux 2.4/2.6 Received: from [81.169.182.136] ([81.169.182.136:58552] helo=strato.aixcept.de) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id A6/41-09182-1916E354 for ; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:55:14 -0400 Received: from baumbart.mbo (dslb-084-063-077-175.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.63.77.175]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by strato.aixcept.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 686FA610283; Tue, 24 Oct 2006 20:55:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 20:55:24 +0200 Reply-To: Marcus Boerger X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <1838975922.20061024205524@marcus-boerger.de> To: Ilia Alshanetsky Cc: Zeev Suraski , Hannes Magnusson , php internals LIST , Marcus Boerger In-Reply-To: References: <7.0.1.0.2.20061024085428.053f9cf8@zend.com> <7f3ed2c30610240757v28702861r8d5f22f7e3047e60@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20061024170856.0583dd20@zend.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Why 5.2 should not be delayed for E_DEPRECATED From: helly@php.net (Marcus Boerger) Hello Ilia, both, the __toString and the iterator in foreach by reference would put the engine into an unstable state. That saiditis very important that we do not blindley change error modes here. Most changes havebeen done for a good reason. And most of those were added lately because we are always pushing to fast with releases so that we only after releasing find out whatis causing problems. And at that time peoplealready started to use those 'features' andscream if we have to remove them. Just keep this in mind - please. best regards marcus Tuesday, October 24, 2006, 5:13:09 PM, you wrote: > Some OO errors like using iterators by reference and throwing > exceptions out of __toString() are ligit as well, doing so would/ > could cause problems. > On 24-Oct-06, at 11:10 AM, Zeev Suraski wrote: >> I think that a lot of those are legit - we only need to 'demote' >> the language-level warnings/errors that attempt to enforce strict >> OO standards. >> Warnings/errors that warn about unacceptable input are legitimate >> and should stay. >> >> Zeev >> >> At 16:57 24/10/2006, Hannes Magnusson wrote: >>> On 10/24/06, Ilia Alshanetsky wrote: >>>> Zeev, >>>> >>>> There are probably 5-6 new fatal errors in the engine since 5.1, >>>> some >>>> of which cannot be delegated to lower error reporting modes as they >>>> may cause engine instability or similar problems. Rasmus was >>>> going to >>>> make a list of all the newly added engine error changes, hopefully >>>> he'll have that list soon. >>> >>> Attached is a list (php examples) over all the backwards incompatible >>> error throwing I could find... >>> -Hannes >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 24-Oct-06, at 2:55 AM, Zeev Suraski wrote: >>>> >>>> > Ilia, >>>> > >>>> > I think Wez's suggestion is the most practical one. Let's make >>>> > sure we haven't introduced any fatal errors into 5.2 (and demote >>>> > them to E_STRICT for now), and handle the rest of the suggestions >>>> > afterwards. >>>> > >>>> > Zeev >>>> > >>>> > At 02:33 24/10/2006, Ilia Alshanetsky wrote: >>>> >> I've been reading people's replies to Marcus' RFC in regard to >>>> >> E_DEPRECATED and it seems that some people have expressed the >>>> want to >>>> >> delay 5.2 until mucking around with error handling is done one >>>> way or >>>> >> another. My simple answer to this is no. >>>> >> >>>> >> The long answer is as follows. >>>> >> >>>> >> PHP 5.2.0 is not the last 5.X release, there will be more >>>> patch level >>>> >> versions and at the very least at least one more major >>>> version, so we >>>> >> should not be trying to stuff every single feature under the sun >>>> >> into it as if it was the end of the 5 series. Furthermore, it >>>> makes >>>> >> little sense to make drastic error handling changes this late >>>> in the >>>> >> game, rushing the decision process and possibly excluding >>>> developers >>>> >> who do not read the list every day or are currently away. It >>>> should >>>> >> go through an extensive peer review and comment process, be >>>> tested, >>>> >> tried with real applications to see what breaks and so on, >>>> this is >>>> >> not a trivial change. Another words it is too major of a >>>> change to do >>>> >> at the last minute, rushing it will only lead to problems we'd >>>> end up >>>> >> cleaning up for many more releases to come. We also need to >>>> remember >>>> >> that 5.2 is already way behind schedule, which is important >>>> because >>>> >> it contains a fair number of security fixes, without which a good >>>> >> number of users are vulnerable to a variety of exploits. >>>> Delaying the >>>> >> release means not deploying those fixes and in my opinion is a >>>> >> disservice to all users of PHP. >>>> >> >>>> >> In my opinion we need to make a release, continue considering >>>> >> Marcus' RFC, develop a patch and push it to our real >>>> development tree >>>> >> PHP 6.0. If it proves to be solid and does not break (m)any >>>> >> applications it would be the first candidate to back-port to 5 >>>> series >>>> >> once 5.3 is under consideration. >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> Ilia Alshanetsky >>>> >> >>>> >> -- >>>> >> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List >>>> >> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List >>>> > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >>>> Ilia Alshanetsky >>>> >>>> -- >>>> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List >>>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php >>>> >>> >>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; >>> name="backwards.incompatible.error.throwing.txt" >>> Content-Disposition: attachment; >>> filename="backwards.incompatible.error.throwing.txt" >>> X-Attachment-Id: f_etof8h3u >> >> > Ilia Alshanetsky Best regards, Marcus