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Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 00:57:33 +0200
Reply-To: Marcus Boerger <helly@php.net>
Message-ID: <972565655.20060517005733@marcus-boerger.de>
To: Andi Gutmans <andi@zend.com>
Cc: Jason Garber <jason@ionzoft.com>, Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com>,
	<internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] private, protected, readonly, public
From: helly@php.net (Marcus Boerger)

Hello Andi,

Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 11:09:51 PM, you wrote:

> Hi Marcus,

> I don't see why everything is always personal for you.

Na. Don't get me wrong here. I am just trying to express that what we did
in the past didn't really work out. The conservative behavior of adding
new features late if at all resulted in a few problems we might have been
able to avoid had we added the stuff earlier. Howver adding everything
early is as you correctly said unmaintainable. And i further more have no
alternative.

> As I mentioned 
> numerous times in the past, having an in-depth discussion about 
> features, both their implementation, affect on language semantics, 
> and relevance to PHP is very beneficial for all. All I meant was that 
> the implementation is one step (and a very necessary step) but that 
> having a patch doesn't always mean it should be applied right away. I 
> just want to make sure we all think it through and discuss the 
> different cases.

Discussing it is good as long as we actually agree that it is worth
discussing :-)

> So it boils down again to the same very relevant question I asked
> initially. Where do you see the edge cases? Can I return a readonly 
> property by reference, can I assign it by reference?

Nope, no references. References would allow writing. Because PHP
doesn't offer readonly variable at all. Which is another reason
i went the 'readable' road.

> So I'm really not asking for too much. Just asking to also work on
> the second part which is defining better the reach of this patch. I 
> think this part needs at least as much effort as the patch itself.

I do all i can. I try to get it straight, find a nice semantics buld
up my own opinion and the try to convince people of it. Besides that
as always i try to correct any technical or theoretical issue i can
stand helping more people to understand the matters :-) It's just
little but all i can do, sorry :-)


Best regards,
 Marcus