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Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 22:55:28 +0200
Reply-To: Marcus Boerger <helly@php.net>
Message-ID: <4010070824.20060516225528@marcus-boerger.de>
To: Andi Gutmans <andi@zend.com>
Cc: Jason Garber <jason@ionzoft.com>, Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com>,
	<internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] private, protected, readonly, public
From: helly@php.net (Marcus Boerger)

Hello Andi,

  however the past has tought of something. Nobody will test a patch.
That said there won't be any feedback until it gets into at least head
and people feel confident they should experiment with it. As it stands
now you could just take it as a decision against it and be done.

best regards
marcus

Tuesday, May 16, 2006, 10:39:53 PM, you wrote:

> I suggest to wait for a response about the edge cases question I sent 
> out (i.e. returning a writable reference of this readonly property).

How is a writeable reference a public read variable in php? In php we
don't have concept like c++ offeres and even there normally const methods
return const references aka read only references.

> I for one haven't quite understood what the semantics will be in all 
> the edge case situations.

The semantics for the majority seems to be public read. E.g. the language
offers a way to circumvent or redefine visibility when reading.

> Although I think the concept is interesting 
> (and somewhat beneficial), I don't want to regret having done it 6 
> months down the line when people complain it's broken because in edge 
> cases it doesn't work. We need to be sure that the semantics are 100% 
> ok in all cases. Writing a patch is the easy part.

If that was the case, then why was i the only one to provide a patch like
in so many times before. I mean yes it is easy for me, and definitively also
for dmitry and sara as well as most likely for you too. But how mayn other
people can provide such a patch?

> The fact that 
> patches can be written doesn't mean we shouldn't be careful about 
> making these changes. We have made too many mistakes in the past 
> which were hard to undo.

Yes we have only i don't know what we can really do about. I mean other
then discussiong it, see that it is doable and getting a feeling for it?
We can apply it or forget it.

best regards
marcus

p.s.: I still have the patches for public/protected/private and those for
final and tons of others related to our object model. Want me to use them
to drop any feature? :-))