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Message-ID: <038d01c676f8$ab9b3380$6602a8c0@foxbox>
Reply-To: "Steph Fox" <steph@zend.com>
To: "Marcus Boerger" <helly@php.net>,
	"Pierre-Alain Joye" <pajoye@php.net>
Cc: <internals@lists.php.net>
References: <138663365.20060514205903@marcus-boerger.de>
Date: Sun, 14 May 2006 03:49:40 +0200
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] E_ALL changes in 5.2/6.0
From: steph@zend.com ("Steph Fox")

Marcus,

FWIW I'm with you (unusually) over E_STRICT. Why would anyone have E_ALL 
switched on anywhere but a dev box? - and when there is the option to switch 
on E_ALL  without E_STRICT, it makes it much easier to miss useful 
information about the direction PHP is going in.

Pierre: the biggest E_STRICT issues I'm aware of are the 'vars don't live 
here any more' one (which was removed two months ago in PHP_5_1 branch) and 
the 'only variables can be passed by reference' one (which is in PHP 4.4.* 
anyway).  Beyond those two, it ought to be pretty rare to even _see_ an 
E_STRICT when you're migrating PHP 4 code to PHP 5 - although it isn't 
necessarily rare when you're finding your way around 5.x with new code. But 
that's OK, because writing new code following a language upgrade really 
should be a learning process - if it isn't, you might as well just stay with 
the old version for as long as you can - and if you're learning, having 
these mild slaps on the wrist is genuinely useful.

Migrating old code, on the other hand, shouldn't be a learning process 
unless there's a real need for that. Given that the vars deprecation notice 
is gone, I don't think there's anything _unnecessarily_ blocking the upgrade 
path any more in that sense. Correct me if I'm wrong...

- Steph

PS Pierre I should've replied to your post instead really, but my mail 
client doesn't handle newsgroup posters too well  :\


> Hello internals,
>
> by accident i added both E_STRICT and E_RECOVERABLE_ERROR to E_ALL
> while MFHing new features as discussed beforehand while decision was
> only to MFH E_RECOVERABLE_ERROR and not to put E_STRICT into E_ALL.
> See: http://oss.backendmedia.com/PhP52
>
> Now the idea of E_STRICT is that core developers can inform users about
> changes in upcoming versions of php as early as possible. So developers
> should have E_ALL including E_STRICT enabled during development so that
> they are able to develop clean applications that most likely will work
> in the next version. On the production machines you would still either
> not use E_ALL or log only and don't show the errors in the application.
>
> That said i am about to not remove E_STRICT from E_ALL and MFH the php
> 6.0 to item just now.
> See: http://oss.backendmedia.com/PhP60  (add E_STRICT to E_ALL DONE 
> (dmitry))
>
> Since this is for the benefit of the users to prevent issues with
> changes in behavior from my opinion it is best to do this behavior
> change as early as possible, which is in my opinion 5.2 anyway.
>
> That said i'll let it in and if there is no valid argument against, i
> will put it into the NEWS file and the newly started README.UPDATE_5_2.
>
> Best regards,
> Marcus
>
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