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Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 16:13:22 -0800
To: Derick Rethans <derick@php.net>
Cc: Steph Fox <steph@zend.com>,internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] True labelled breaks
From: andi@zend.com (Andi Gutmans)

As I said, the syntax is quite elegant and the patch isn't too bad either.
However, I do suggest we only add it if people are really convinced 
that it'll be used.
Reflection falls into a different category in my opinion, because it 
actually allows you to do stuff you couldn't really do before... It's 
a bad comparison.

Andi

At 03:53 PM 2/18/2006, Derick Rethans wrote:
>Perhaps not many will use it, that doesn't mean it's useful. I don't
>have much use of the Reflection stuff either, nor do I see its general
>usefulness. That doesn't mean I am against having it in PHP because it
>is useful. In the previous thread we already saw where the labelled
>break was useful, and I would like to see the proposed patch committed.
>
>Derick
>
>On Sat, 18 Feb 2006, Andi Gutmans wrote:
>
> > Yeah but my point was that even people for who it isn't scary 
> (the devs) don't
> > use it very much :) It's just something which isn't needed very often. So
> > we're wasting lots of bandwidth on something which not many will 
> use anyway :)
> >
> > Andi
> >
> > At 02:54 PM 2/18/2006, Steph Fox wrote:
> > >Agreed it's not used very much. That's because people like me think it's
> > >scary :)  and that's _exactly_ what I was trying to say.
> > >
> > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Andi Gutmans" <andi@zend.com>
> > >To: "Steph Fox" <steph@zend.com>; "internals" <internals@lists.php.net>
> > >Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 12:48 AM
> > >Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] True labelled breaks
> > >
> > >
> > > >It's just something which to begin with isn't used that much.
> > > >Grep'ed phpweb/ for it and found 0 occurrences of break n; and I believe
> > > >the people developing it would be the ones who would know how to use it.
> > > >
> > > >Andi
> > > >
> > > >At 02:33 PM 2/18/2006, Steph Fox wrote:
> > > > >I personally find working with numbers difficult, which is 
> why I'm wholly
> > > > >in support of this patch.
> > > > >
> > > > >I doubt I'm the only PHP user with that issue, due to the 
> 'ease of use'
> > > > >that allows people with no history of computer science to write useful
> > > > >scripts (for which, thank you all). But I wouldn't expect a 
> great deal of
> > > > >sympathy on that point from CS graduates.
> > > > >
> > > > >nb I think implementing goto/equivalent itself is a fairly 
> bad idea - I
> > > > >appear to be in the minority on that issue. But I don't see 
> any problem
> > > > >with introducing labels, I just see it as a more user-friendly way of
> > > > >allowing nested breaks.
> > > > >
> > > > >Am I very wrong?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Andi Gutmans" <andi@zend.com>
> > > > >To: "Steph Fox" <steph@zend.com>; "internals" 
> <internals@lists.php.net>
> > > > >Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 9:30 PM
> > > > >Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] True labelled breaks
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >I think that in 1997 when break/continue n where 
> implemented it would
> > > > > >have been a nice idea, but at this stage except for being 
> more elegant
> > > > > >than break/continue n it doesn't truly add anything 
> substantial to PHP
> > > > > >(and as you already mentioned it's orthogonal to the goto 
> discussion).
> > > > > >I think having more than 1 way of doing the same thing, in 
> this case,
> > > > > >might just end up confusing people developing with PHP 
> (i.e. the Perl
> > > > > >way :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Just for the record I am coming at this from an open mind. 
> Dmitry did
> > > > > >spend time on this patch, etc...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I'd recommend to bed it once and for all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >At 09:16 AM 2/18/2006, Steph Fox wrote:
> > > > > > >Guys and guyess,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Sara and Dmitry's patch to introduce labelled breaks was 
> discussed on
> > > > > > >internals@ ever-so-briefly at the beginning of December, but there
> > > > > > >was never any decision made over it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Given that practically everyone who survived the preceding GOTO
> > > > > > >discussion seemed to think it was a good idea at the 
> time, could you
> > > > > > >please re-visit it, evaluate it, discuss it (as opposed to talking
> > > > > > >about GOTO, which is unrelated) and either OK it or put 
> it to bed for
> > > > > > >once and for all?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Relevant summary is at
> > > > > > >http://www.zend.com/zend/week/week265.php#Heading3
> > > > > > >Relevant patch is at http://www.zend.com/zend/week/pat/index.php
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >And if it's worth anything, +1 from me.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >- Steph
> > > > > > >--
> > > > > > >PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> > > > > > >To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--
> > > > > >PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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>
>--
>Derick Rethans
>http://derickrethans.nl | http://ez.no | http://xdebug.org