Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:21910
Return-Path: <helly@php.net>
Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm
Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net
Received: (qmail 14058 invoked by uid 1010); 18 Feb 2006 01:02:18 -0000
Delivered-To: ezmlm-scan-internals@lists.php.net
Delivered-To: ezmlm-internals@lists.php.net
Received: (qmail 14043 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2006 01:02:18 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1)
  by localhost with SMTP; 18 Feb 2006 01:02:18 -0000
X-Host-Fingerprint: 81.169.182.136 ajaxatwork.net Linux 2.4/2.6
Received: from ([81.169.182.136:39228] helo=strato.aixcept.de)
	by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.0 beta r(6323M)) with SMTP
	id D6/92-26540-91276F34 for <internals@lists.php.net>; Fri, 17 Feb 2006 20:02:18 -0500
Received: from [192.168.1.3] (dslb-084-063-013-081.pools.arcor-ip.net [84.63.13.81])
	(using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
	(No client certificate requested)
	by strato.aixcept.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F9CB35C1DD;
	Sat, 18 Feb 2006 02:02:13 +0100 (CET)
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 02:02:16 +0100
Reply-To: Marcus Boerger <helly@php.net>
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
Message-ID: <535016514.20060218020216@marcus-boerger.de>
To: Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com>, Sara Golemon <saramg@berkeley.edu>
Cc: internals@lists.php.net
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060218020210.086c8ec0@zend.com>
References: <002201c6331d$a79473b0$58d01a44@stumpy> <7.0.1.0.2.20060216192615.099c9598@zend.com> <000901c63322$20b5d550$5c8be5a9@ohr.berkeley.edu> <7.0.1.0.2.20060217005156.0b12d660@zend.com> <4858f9d90602170155v6843bb5ew@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20060217130522.083f7c40@zend.com> <796153012.20060218002455@marcus-boerger.de> <7.0.1.0.2.20060218020210.086c8ec0@zend.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Minor engine patch to facilitate PECL/operator
From: helly@php.net (Marcus Boerger)

Hello Zeev and hello Sara

Saturday, February 18, 2006, 1:04:20 AM, you wrote:

> At 01:24 18/02/2006, Marcus Boerger wrote:
>>Actually Sara only asked whether she could add a flag to some handlers.
>>That has nothing to with anything you started to discuss from there.

> Uhm, Sara asked whether she could add a flag to a specific operator 
> to facilitate a certain behavior, namely, the ability to make x<y and 
y>>x be treated differently.  It has everything to do with what I 
> discussed from there (but not with transitivity).

  the point is not being able to treat them differently. The point is being
able to distinguish them so the right operation is called. Btw, in c++ it
is common to do things like:

  bool operator != (_IN Type& oth)
  {
    return !(operator == (oth));
  }

for < and > it means in php the user could (should we add overloading) do

  function __less_then($other)
  {
    return $other->__greater($this);
  }

But before you think i want op overloading in php let me assure you that i
do not want that. The reson is that it is the opposite of our beloved KISS
approach. So for example sooner or later we'd reach a point where crazy
stuff - really crazy stuff - nobody understands is needed. For example
another view on C++. Most overloaders do checking for "has some value" or
"is valid" by:
  operator bool () const {... }
Which leads to a lot of problems. While the correct version would be:
  typedef  MemberType   ClassType::*unspecified_boolean_type;

  operator ClassType::*unspecified_boolean_type()
  {
    return valid ? &ClassType::member : 0;
  }

  MemberType member;

And now tell me how many ppl do you know who understand the above and the
implications the simple bool conversion has.


Best regards,
 Marcus