Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:20418 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 13139 invoked by uid 1010); 25 Nov 2005 17:43:32 -0000 Delivered-To: ezmlm-scan-internals@lists.php.net Delivered-To: ezmlm-internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 13124 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2005 17:43:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 25 Nov 2005 17:43:32 -0000 X-Host-Fingerprint: 80.74.107.235 mail.zend.com Linux 2.5 (sometimes 2.4) (4) Received: from ([80.74.107.235:2137] helo=mail.zend.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.0 beta r(6323M)) with SMTP id 40/7E-56276-34D47834 for ; Fri, 25 Nov 2005 12:43:32 -0500 Received: (qmail 7463 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2005 17:43:27 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO ANDI-NOTEBOOK.zend.com) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 25 Nov 2005 17:43:27 -0000 Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.2.20051125094247.02c63890@zend.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.0.16 Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 09:43:25 -0800 To: Rasmus Lerdorf ,Ilia Alshanetsky Cc: Sascha Schumann ,internals@lists.php.net In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.2.20051125091637.02c6da38@zend.com> References: <7.0.0.16.2.20051124161240.0573e640@zend.com> <20051125034515.6fefa4e2@localhost.localdomain> <43867C6C.2010209@prohost.org> <20051125040950.26305e08@localhost.localdomain> <43869FC5.4060708@lerdorf.com> <20051125075501.79718ee6@localhost.localdomain> <1132903004.9936.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1086017308.20051125091648@marcus-boerger.de> <438709AC.3020808@prohost.org> <43870FE6.7040609@prohost.org> <43873C62.6030602@lerdorf.com> <7.0.0.16.2.20051125091637.02c6da38@zend.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break thousands of apps out there) From: andi@zend.com (Andi Gutmans) BTW, just to clarify, I am not against a Date class (whatever its name) in the long run but I think it'd probably be a combination of work Derick, Pierre and new contributions. Andi At 09:17 AM 11/25/2005, Andi Gutmans wrote: >I must say that I feel deceived by this. >Derick and I agreed that this won't be enabled for 5.1, and he then >took advantage of the fact that release managers changed to enable >his class. Doesn't leave a good taste in my mouth and it shouldn't >happen again in future. > >Andi > >At 08:31 AM 11/25/2005, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote: >>Ilia Alshanetsky wrote: >>>Sascha Schumann wrote: >>>> I've seen that text. It is hidden at the end of a paragraph >>>> not related to the topic at all (something about class >>>> constants). As such it is totally inadequate. There should >>>> be a prominent point in the release announcement about >>>> reserved symbols. >>>Does this include anytime a new function/class is added we need to make >>>a prominent notice about since it reserves some name space? >>>Bottom line there is a problem and we need a fix for it. One solution >>>that has been suggested is to revert the date class and release 5.1.1, >>>but this means we pretty much deny ourselves the ability to have a >>>native "Date" class in PHP. Is this really the only fix we can come up with? >> >>I don't think it ties our hands. The current problem is that >>people had about a week to prepare for this and the commit message of: >> >> "Moved date constants into the date class, they all class constants now." >> >>didn't exactly trigger people to run out to fix this. I was under >>the impression that this date class was ifdef'ed out and although I >>should have realized that it is impossible to move the date >>constants to class constants without also enabling the class, I >>didn't think of it when I saw this commit roll by. So I feel >>somewhat tricked by this and I don't like that. I know it wasn't >>an intentional thing, but Derick's view that "Gotcha! It's in >>5.1.0 now, so you can't change it" doesn't sit well with me either. >> >>As I stated before, core PHP does reserve the right to pick up the >>most obvious keywords as we come up with new functionality, and I >>think we should have a date class, but we should do it in an >>orderly manner and give people some time to migrate to something >>that actually makes sense. >> >>At this point I don't really care if we roll it back or give it >>some obscure temporary name like date_ex which we can use as a >>temporary placeholder while we work out what this class should look >>like. Despite all of Pierre's hot air, he does actually have some >>good ideas in pecl/date that should be considered and Derick's >>timezone code appears to be solid at least from the parts of it I >>have used so far. So let's just take a deep breath here, fix the >>naming clash with pear and give them a chance to prefix their stuff >>and provide a sane migration path for users and then come up with a >>sensible plan for what the PHP date class should look like and work >>with the pear guys to make sure they can actually use this new >>class in their migration path. >> >>-Rasmus >> >>-- >>PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List >>To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > >-- >PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List >To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php