Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:20378 Return-Path: Mailing-List: contact internals-help@lists.php.net; run by ezmlm Delivered-To: mailing list internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 51255 invoked by uid 1010); 25 Nov 2005 11:42:54 -0000 Delivered-To: ezmlm-scan-internals@lists.php.net Delivered-To: ezmlm-internals@lists.php.net Received: (qmail 51237 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2005 11:42:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 25 Nov 2005 11:42:54 -0000 X-Host-Fingerprint: 81.103.221.49 mta09-winn.ispmail.ntl.com Solaris 8 (1) Received: from ([81.103.221.49:43013] helo=mta09-winn.ispmail.ntl.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.0 beta r(6323M)) with SMTP id 38/CA-56276-DB8F6834 for ; Fri, 25 Nov 2005 06:42:53 -0500 Received: from aamta12-winn.ispmail.ntl.com ([81.103.221.35]) by mta09-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20051125114250.GLJD8609.mta09-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@aamta12-winn.ispmail.ntl.com>; Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:42:50 +0000 Received: from [192.168.0.20] (really [81.106.214.135]) by aamta12-winn.ispmail.ntl.com with ESMTP id <20051125114249.HEVX18425.aamta12-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@[192.168.0.20]>; Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:42:49 +0000 Message-ID: <4386F8B7.7070605@fission.org.uk> Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 11:42:47 +0000 User-Agent: Debian Thunderbird 1.0.7 (X11/20051002) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: Christian Schneider , Sascha Schumann , internals@lists.php.net References: <7.0.0.16.2.20051124161240.0573e640@zend.com> <20051125034515.6fefa4e2@localhost.localdomain> <43867C6C.2010209@prohost.org> <20051125040950.26305e08@localhost.localdomain> <43869FC5.4060708@lerdorf.com> <20051125075501.79718ee6@localhost.localdomain> <1132903004.9936.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1086017308.20051125091648@marcus-boerger.de> <4386F325.5020102@cschneid.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP 5.1 (Or How to break tousands of apps outthere) From: gareth@fission.org.uk (Gareth Ardron) Derick Rethans wrote: >> Using generic names for core functionality in the global name space >> is a bad >> thing, no matter how convenient the name might be. That's a lesson >> PHP has >> learned for function names quite a while ago, let's not repeat the same >> mistake for class names. >> > > > No no, the core reserves the right to name whatever they want, it's > the userland code that is responsible for prefixing their classes. > > True, but where part of the PHP project has already adopted that name, doesn't it make sense to assume that they have a first priority to this. This seems to fall back to the discussion a few months back about how much BC breakage people wanted to cause in 5.1/6 in any case. I thought this was resolved back then, but evidently not. It'd seem to me that there's two options - just say that there'll be breakage[0] like this throughout the 5/5.1 release process and don't get anybody moving to it or to keep major breaking for major revisions - the way every other largescale opensource project works (and does so for a damn good reason). I'd personally far rather that such a break came in 5.1 over 5.1.1, though I still don't think a change which has such a major impact over such a large portion of the userbase is a good plan for a minor release (much less a maintainance release like 5.1.1); after all, there's been some 259,000 downloads of pear's date class and I'd argue there's a substantial amount of developers with their own date class outside of that group. You're effectively talking about hitting 300,000-500,000 developers with a massive change on a minor release. You talk about doing things the 'right' way often - well that's just plain wrong. [0] Ok, I know it's not really breaking anything within php - but it's breaking a lot of apps.