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Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 13:32:28 -0800
To: Christian Stocker <chregu@bitflux.ch>,Zeev Suraski <zeev@zend.com>
Cc: Rasmus Lerdorf <rasmus@lerdorf.com>,"D.Walsh" <info@daleenterprise.com>,
	PHPdev <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Anyone against requiring libxml2 2.6.x
	for	PHP5.1?
From: andi@zend.com (Andi Gutmans)

I still think we should reconsider bundling libxml2 and solve this issue. 
XML is a center piece of PHP 5 and will be more and more used by extensions 
as well as developers. I think the benefit far outweighs the downside of 
bundling.
I know some disagree because of size but I don't see this as an issue. I 
think giving PHP users a better experience is very beneficial.

Andi

At 09:27 PM 2/15/2005 +0100, Christian Stocker wrote:


>On 15.2.2005 17:29 Uhr, Zeev Suraski wrote:
>>At 07:26 15/02/2005, Rasmus Lerdorf wrote:
>>
>>>D.Walsh wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Feb 14, 2005, at 23:49, Adam Maccabee Trachtenberg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Well, that's below 2.5.11, which is what we currently require, so
>>>>>those folks are already out of luck.
>>>>>
>>>>>Meanwhile, Mac OS 10.4 is at 2.6.16, so that's okay. I don't have a
>>>>>10.3 machine with me here at LinuxWorld, so I can't check that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>OSX 10.3 is at 2.5.4
>>>
>>>
>>>At the same time, why would people on older operating systems who are 
>>>obviously quite conservative when it comes to upgrading suddenly try to 
>>>upgrade to the very latest PHP?  As long as we don't move the goalposts 
>>>beyond the latest releases of the various main operating systems I think 
>>>we are fine.
>>
>>At the end of the day it's a fact that lots of people use the latest 
>>version of PHP on exceptionally old systems.  Some of the reasons I can 
>>think of off hand:
>>- Because they're new comers to PHP, and the first version they try may 
>>already be too 'demanding' for their server
>>- Because of a (somewhat justified, but not quite) perception that the 
>>latest (major) PHP version is more secure, and because PHP is much more 
>>visible to them than some library(*)
>>- Because they want specific features in the latest version of PHP, and 
>>the same (*) applies here too.
>>There are probably other reasons I didn't think about.  People who follow 
>>PHP don't necessarily follow all of PHP's dependencies.  In my experience 
>>they rarely do.
>>Zeev
>>(*) The average PHP user will easily tell you that he's using PHP, but 
>>he's much less likely to know that he's using libxml2, and will almost 
>>definitely not know which version of libxml2 he's using.  We can't assert 
>>that because someone is upgrading to new major versions of PHP, he shows 
>>the same level of interest in OS/library updates.
>
>And for that reason, it's maybe a good thing, if we require a more recent 
>libxml2. Because not all things can be supported with 2.5 and therefore 
>people will get confused, when a feature doesn't work on their system... 
>Furthermore it's a pita for reusable-code-writers, if it doesn't work on 
>some installations (and they would have to test their scripts against 2.5 
>and 2.6).
>
>But basically, for me it boils down to the points I made before. Testing 
>and maintaining. Each time we add a new feature or change some things, we 
>have to compile and test it against 2.5 and 2.6 . Looking at the very 
>limited amount of people working on the libxml stuff (it's mainly Rob 
>currently) and the disinterest of me and Rob (don't know about the other 
>XML people) in 2.5, this isn't really the way to go for me.
>
>Besides the fact, that some things just can be done nicer and easier in a 
>2.6-only environment.
>
>And it's not that we want to change the requirements from 5.0.3 to 5.0.4, 
>but only for 5.1 (just to make that clear).
>
>chregu
>
>
>
>
>--
>christian stocker | Bitflux GmbH | schoeneggstrasse 5 | ch-8004 zurich
>phone +41 1 240 56 70 | mobile +41 76 561 88 60  | fax +41 1 240 56 71
>http://www.bitflux.ch  |  chregu@bitflux.ch  |  gnupg-keyid 0x5CE1DECB
>
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