Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:130994
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <dc9f58c1532b087a1e4f5bb3c02f739e@s22.us> <c2bdd308-1179-4011-aa05-103cbdc9fc05@me.com>
In-Reply-To: <c2bdd308-1179-4011-aa05-103cbdc9fc05@me.com>
Date: Sat, 23 May 2026 21:45:20 +0300
Message-ID: <CAPhkiZztXfkCHtLfr0OvWLZt4ptNtARJL0WG+YGTkrBs6DUZCA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Proposal for 2 new magic constants
To: Jordi Kroon <jordikroon@me.com>
Cc: internals@lists.php.net
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ca59f80652808cf4"
From: narf@devilix.net (Andrey Andreev)

--000000000000ca59f80652808cf4
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

On Sat, May 23, 2026 at 8:23=E2=80=AFPM Jordi Kroon <jordikroon@me.com> wro=
te:

>
> This kind of information is environment-specific and does not really
> belong as a language-level magic constant. Existing magic constants
> describe source context (`__FILE__`, `__DIR__`, etc.), not host or user
> environment details.
>
> For CLI usage, this information is usually already available through
> environment variables such as `HOME` and `USER`, which is the more
> appropriate place for this kind of information.
>

I concur, and that settles the argument for me. However ...


> In isolated environments such as containers or chroots, exposing user or
> home-directory information is also something we generally should avoid.
>
> More importantly, I think we should discourage PHP web applications from
> reaching into other parts of the system and instead encourage them to
> stay within their application/web directories.


This default mindset of "PHP is for web and everything must conform to
that" is my biggest pet peeve on this list. It would serve PHP better to
not impede more general purpose use cases.

Cheers,
Andrey.

--000000000000ca59f80652808cf4
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi,</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_co=
ntainer"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, May 23, 2026 at 8:23=
=E2=80=AFPM Jordi Kroon &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jordikroon@me.com">jordikroon=
@me.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex"><br>
This kind of information is environment-specific and does not really <br>
belong as a language-level magic constant. Existing magic constants <br>
describe source context (`__FILE__`, `__DIR__`, etc.), not host or user <br=
>
environment details.<br>
<br>
For CLI usage, this information is usually already available through <br>
environment variables such as `HOME` and `USER`, which is the more <br>
appropriate place for this kind of information.<br></blockquote><div><br></=
div><div>I concur, and that settles the argument for me. However ...</div><=
div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0=
px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
In isolated environments such as containers or chroots, exposing user or <b=
r>
home-directory information is also something we generally should avoid.<br>
<br>
More importantly, I think we should discourage PHP web applications from <b=
r>
reaching into other parts of the system and instead encourage them to <br>
stay within their application/web directories.</blockquote><div><br></div><=
div>This default mindset of &quot;PHP is for web and everything must confor=
m to that&quot; is my biggest pet peeve on this list. It would serve PHP be=
tter to not impede more general purpose use cases.</div><div><br></div><div=
>Cheers,</div><div>Andrey.</div></div></div>

--000000000000ca59f80652808cf4--