Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:130787
To: Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.com>
CC: php internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Context Managers
Thread-Topic: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Context Managers
Thread-Index: AQHcTcgg8gRQa6BniU+ZYT5M9VEmqbVUAMwAgAYcfYCAqHFTgA==
Date: Wed, 6 May 2026 20:15:42 +0000
Message-ID: <49F275F4-4E72-4B9A-B6A5-68D7E57B1551@hotmail.com>
References: <a087d9fa-112a-4631-9c84-3efae641e0db@app.fastmail.com>
 <CAMmyQQKcPAc0KA_-yo5y2GTAVcccxv4w6MPeDvpPfXiyozm-cQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <b800cd33-ea95-4dca-98d0-8d1d631fe552@app.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <b800cd33-ea95-4dca-98d0-8d1d631fe552@app.fastmail.com>
Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US
Content-Language: en-US
x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SVAP279MB0383:EE_|SV0P279MB0680:EE_
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: ffc9fb24-470a-488e-76cb-08deabac3fb1
x-microsoft-antispam:
 BCL:0;ARA:14566002|19110799012|37011999003|25031999004|461199028|51005399006|8060799015|8062599012|31061999003|15080799012|41001999006|10092599007|24021099003|10035399007|4302099013|3412199025|440099028|102099032|56899033|26104999009|1602099012|40105399003;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info:
 =?us-ascii?Q?d8aOcJrhzvj2oYzYyKARTPLGtWMagNWo+lhqr0jfZkWfo9KgtDKPlVZfsyuZ?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?nz1p51ew28nSzCvt3HYN9Ve2kKGpm1SqsaRf3eWz7r5fcEjg5TfJCF6oKpnO?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?mJmqkrCR89ogOFVAqFZN9P1s9dLBzNTrs8uoR8soi5Xokv7oqhr4R1biKbA/?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?4eooCaNE951tCR43V1lpqjneAp1x41L2/m5KDWeM2wC2i9YUuPNEOaHhJxuN?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?SYgSlhTMcsqtmmviphqm9HR7dlWh2t4dcgcyKVaAbntHEJiVEsA9duknhPvs?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?1NjoEkNha9W3n/xE1DwODkG0zFNpAPBwhZDvWdA+sKO1O9KJ6drsDVosUrdU?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?2k4SfTJi9AfeBTbZXa9nQgWDRM96iWo8MLEqCJp5OOPe7dFPyfXyv3DrX97J?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?GeGGg4xCJ7IPu3K2PSGSRGfWwQqgB2rhFSxJzIG+YhZOu/XsZoax9frMp625?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?CY/TTlei2IQuaOoczPrcI3DjupwL6j20oSP3Kak0uYJ9n931L659b62uXvR5?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?pd3TZIM7NPaljr6ehwoP1TLHu+iPVgy95zO3bbQp7249Deykr1qh1TDmKkqP?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?U+CljHpRxBZP+lHMQc0Z8cjoc1im+4f2hVo2TFQK+pmLJzJ27LjmpFbSl6Jo?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?DUxChEb8eJsWwW7SsU7W1twvWVuJE5Q59GSvzAg7U6OZNwZTIHjfp/073meb?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?mLTuPh0El0wAes8XEnWz43ViyiByCte4LZVhb1Wm9URxfIAZtye+wzhmUE7r?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?8nRCoI6sA5WWnvXwPou2O/WS9Nsq87ONaEkIckHAtOkUZyv2FdFqlJvAUTxN?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?mjjCkIqGIQqxKqBJ0PXRNVB6r9ls+yerUI/OhHjfFWrGa3k6SUsXM4Cnd9jt?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?QQN5ZSyVcEE0iiu1zzL9EBMI6d7jIaCxAGDjZU9NG2WvcFo18fpDSqkLMATD?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?5DNKNkiDD0MlwSrxFKRcjLv733olyf1I2BgZEvx1qlmSYRmvHTkW/XFc0Y7f?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?fR8FUFmVOdypBI9rtr7XoW/JXQK45f99JZjtlKoEHlDInzz9QiIkHzwrjnT7?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?gKQXXx/kfR+sUbnVpZGwCLE1PeI3gJLSMjnDgHl2dWmPbmAm1WCP3B4O9MiM?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?gbgNYti722qIAo5qZuH5GxnxENngr6VDeGzQyimmrVMAY4WKPxjpqRE=3D?=
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0:
 =?us-ascii?Q?GDivSrtuOxmaj0EPj/eMVczIS1ba4hq/In9/ffL0E+CibpSw4ErRB4I09laZ?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?sTzjvvzUy0WbCW5IzObmkG+9ppkmrxouleLdGNmZBafwxYL37WIOs7Th++4/?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?mYmsD5MlEeq0odUPVw1V667OfIXZoUy22m5EsuSATQeW/byfnPuYy6g6lBwz?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?exAnWAuPDU5yQ5v8M/r93UXMWLuf8txoDgpisz7YAWTKkcvIZK62rPDRCU97?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?mcn6rKb/N9QbJBluPtuuKVsD7PMSj5yN3wmmjufUsTPdMrswdoA0+DfQh96P?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?6D7D6exnDuBXoGtCAdqDPfGvI4RAzNLnsNwfF2cLhx9Z2u2vnCYm8BT18Xwo?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?7XVepnbM+Np1ihJpWaxsyNQnBLYg3XJ7d47TM59j72Bd3LNYdAyWEsW319Fg?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?qgdvJhkB/iughMR7koUDeIcCsQ6/Zb+nuTZ9AtB+d+0lX2qiw/rbVEd8tZk+?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?HXVJIvmBYSkN4hqw7KguANz3nJ35DCZQfQMGrLKNFrZ7lAv0rnBbA8p1cTNX?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?+V1G1Z8ygzlrqqdFfBzm9KguKHJJ73Y4QR2UXJttiiF+NdFoH3b5+QcsZVMg?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?3+EV4DCTMqkM5GzSvg9HUWqcP8eGC/SyD9WbnHwJlj2uFggaoi6MnhZYhJkn?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?wU5UZVq6WYWZuP9xKm+sD5SsrbaGuWZdanGteVhZc52LxSvG5Mg9igjOjWEQ?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?bdpEYTXJzp6WzAgj/sw7j9wNg3AZCKFUz4gcrsaMGwG/Eet2yVBKNzlj9wum?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?aBqEqXrKoVq4YQT4GlK3ZWOfqWyyk/yGPJDLJsw8khIw95jEZDeBlbzSdxfd?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?DnTJXgBFmm3+4QvTzZnq5a4mp4r3ZGeV1m07SSfH99Fw1LZqfaQW6ayyssPs?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?lE3qcXtlelQscxQ4lW/XFhZyckCoSYfDjEKAaeXsWQEehVBQq5yMRHLs64QV?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?FPV3HPV0Tj8/kvdwiK4XgnsDR3FEDMMksMSWMmq2J8zJz2emvu2/spYxHWc0?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?ct26i/XrDfEBasymKAkW3Xp4Kl/F5xr+QfDyNGN1ZlJqF7LkbQzxygGSMg/e?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?ZPkil7O6V2llP4GKJQ96nA84zFVCMusxqsFVxzkvCLR+rnnbJLx6HyaPMe+8?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?hgEUgOXPGynU65P3o7MJ7zoWct/4bsmRyk6XYxDLNnMloisTFM9DWB9xbSdP?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?jMU5Q3FpXILLl6/ObNaOg/TTDOBwwQmbTxHNaVqkFnwK/nwTsVBbFUydJJFj?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?GjFNpL2v78n+KZAreGHEcy7OhmDuS4KM8IYAUBMjANYaqbBJVm7xx+E4B9Cc?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?DAVvtGYwZf0fgYUTwHHZUDjRTDuoRKaoQ85lw9eSCxfs0ZYUSJS1tzHvrvx1?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?b8zqy3Lv+I4PrP5/q2ZckmJAqZeUeNvzULYp96LLYW90fBhQDHogh7wjs1Xh?=
 =?us-ascii?Q?Mf3n6/GnI5/yxKDnj/sp3nF3VvHdkTbA?=
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-ID: <551C6A07A2D0984393522A89FB3A3748@NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Precedence: list
list-help: <mailto:internals+help@lists.php.net>
list-unsubscribe: <mailto:internals+unsubscribe@lists.php.net>
list-post: <mailto:internals@lists.php.net>
List-Id: <internals.lists.php.net>
x-ms-reactions: disallow
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: sct-15-20-9412-4-msonline-outlook-ecede.templateTenant
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SVAP279MB0383.NORP279.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ffc9fb24-470a-488e-76cb-08deabac3fb1
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 May 2026 20:15:42.4433
 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-rms-persistedconsumerorg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SV0P279MB0680
From: bobwei9@hotmail.com (Bob Weinand)

Hey Larry,

> Am 19.01.2026 um 16:58 schrieb Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.com>:
>=20
> As noted in Future Scope, we can add function-based context managers as w=
ell based on generators.  At the moment we're not convinced it's necessary,=
 but it's a straightforward add-on if we find that always writing a class f=
or a context manager is too cumbersome.
>=20
> The issue with punting this behavior to user-space is that a library cann=
ot provide this sort of functionality in a clean way.
>=20
> In an ideal world, if we had auto-capturing long-closures, then I would a=
gree this is largely unnecessary and could instead be implemented like so (=
to reuse the examples from the RFC):
>=20
> $conn->inTransaction(function () {
>  // SQL stuff.
> });
>=20
> $locker->lock('file.txt', function () {
>  // File stuff.
> });
>=20
> $scope->inScope(function () {
>  $scope->spawn(yadda yadda);
> });
>=20
> $errorHandlerScope->run(fn() =3D> null, function () {
>  // Do stuff here with no error handling.
> });
>=20
> And so forth.  If we had auto-capturing closures, I would probably argue =
that is a better approach.
>=20
> However, auto-capturing closures have been rejected several times, and I =
have no confidence that we will ever get them.  (Whether you approve or dis=
approve of that is your personal opinion.)  The current alternative involve=
s using lots of `use` clauses, which is needlessly clunky to the point that=
 folks try to avoid it.
>=20
> I literally have code like this in a project right now, and I've had to d=
o this many times:
>=20
> public function parseFolder(PhysicalPath $physicalPath, LogicalPath $logi=
calPath, array $mounts): bool
> {
>    return $this->cache->inTransaction(function() use ($physicalPath, $log=
icalPath, $mounts) {
>        // Lots of SQL updates here.
>    });
> }
>=20
> That's just gross. :-)  This is exactly the example that's been used in t=
he past to argue in favor of auto-capturing closures, but it's never been s=
uccessful.

I fully agree that this is gross. I have just created a comprehensive RFC h=
ttps://wiki.php.net/rfc/scope-functions to address this underlying problem =
you describe.

It does address quite a few of the main issues people had with trivial auto=
-capturing Closures which would simply clone the symbol table.

I personally really don't like this Context Managers RFC given the apparent=
 complexity it has (only for heavyweight usages basically, library style - =
you wouldn't just create ContextManager implementing classes ad hoc for eve=
rything).

Thus, I'd like to ask you to consider my RFC first and give feedback on it,=
 and possibly - obviously only if you think my RFC is a good choice for the=
 language - pause this RFC for as long as mine is under discussion.

Thanks,
Bob=