Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:130757
To: internals@lists.php.net
Date: Sun, 3 May 2026 10:29:20 -0500
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Release Manager Selection
References: <093f97b0805b43ae640d80b9e06eb203@bastelstu.be>
 <269a95c46c5b81ebe160799b6b15dc2c@bastelstu.be>
 <20260503144011.42BF81A00BD@lists.php.net>
Content-Language: en-US
Autocrypt: addr=ramsey@php.net; keydata=
 xsFNBGCHQTYBEAC6IU9aXEpVuLJNAzXwL7q9Vt1PkxJHr7kJynUg/3ISrOdJy2Ebola7GbEd
 vLZ69o+NbsL5vmOmT2AD0pEGfMgE9KWJ122iEfN4hrWThz+sHcVd/TKX9E98g+HTpoJGtYcp
 6jYxG0YRP7dn1zSn9CawVJpMsoS2G0JZB/q2lIELoPRLMjicRDBEfamTPi3vyYiuf4vvCcYY
 z3AEMYirt5f7rBrVOs3FVBozEqrN2fPRWvFgTnhsQ8MEiq5/DMsnxFq2wgheAKPIAXhZiJFo
 KHsrpiAANEmGZBY2pbW05rBY1ZmJpi1yCrSk582cdPo2Ca+NrNEPJ9spoEinAtApp/orirJY
 bjKViWqmh7mYYyv/NAQKwGBE1up3tSGVj0rKG3f9seLvYsApHf0lhEQN/ypzC+pYDlSXzWxc
 Q8bifixb6XulaEgB5XOHwuvpTK6HoNNdZM44Fl+B/eAXaebL6Vh0P1EN/2DBr4FGNb8vlXdv
 Gxs7rJbJ8+aNmYeNIdg5qbYubNsO2fU7yw9kTDNTej63Ql1a0Md2wfZze8dZy6LJ/tL//IH3
 JPd0jvT1y0LVIKoYVrIfv06zolVplqi72zfec1kpw0VR6dT/LyhBlyNumqJMRHdZlX4pUCpx
 79pOonjHNTNuhjOPLlzai0ooWBtloDZfNGoFRVNNJv/hGvVM+wARAQABzRtCZW4gUmFtc2V5
 IDxyYW1zZXlAcGhwLm5ldD7CwZQEEwEIAD4CGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJCAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AW
 IQQ5tkE0PYwQSysUbcP5w53AuWmFRAUCZ0+z5QUJCrEVAgAKCRD5w53AuWmFRLkPD/9m2OrW
 H4oXvgbxxmwSKruWndrQda/1WwfMCjWI1uc6fJfZZlN6SHQ//HXi84ZTttDNOSjOl40g6UkB
 At+No9gJkTELe6bLJ/v2apJ3tothdQltJ/AQJ1Nvong+cv0QGdw6VeQmb/gh5PSfo427N95N
 d0BDZVFERqU7NnnZv/T+LUDJBXUESSIDTM6KCWA9EU5Nc9P1D/1GlIza9s5H3VA5fMFwuK4H
 2CuKyPdLhsk6lvdl5yHUN81w+Z6Jue9DzfW9N4Z1//CzM8dVP2TVaTmVGDr/CekvwXTNZ4kN
 ylDJCS+KKQr7oXkltWo2xlX7oPP8LNk2fU/XMVDS8vgYiuGMKw94gyVOBe/dwFcQCT7mVyXI
 l/sMqmXqDhGnCFZwL9sfFbfDDl9NFzNRG7c4pNMfmQLdnVBqGg05uDze0x50G12/65bT5U3y
 eCPIjtHLTqYWFOlWJ67UlQ4AJDTWOlq4ccBRGtIIuHQ5gxn6zfbvCvMiUA9A/diWuVXWy/u0
 Rbq89ton5x3tRsHa+C0cDoiOBJ9Q5mHAqtz+VzZh9PStPCOIvSohm/XzcBv9bHxJyMrYMmQZ
 mCuDKf1AK6rqN4YHqQMvpFFLMQyo1EYol8yxLiO+H4uOCFrHu/kwotfK61TH9LsxgHUo1Dl/
 vHtU8KMqb2KpwMllMexpn/cz0fFmL87BTQRpJQwSARAA68JT0pKCseOkCE8lrV1fdyfAHpZl
 Gr4QypMABxcE3fNjD2uUm3RIUdHvV64u+M/braCs9JFI7V+f0f9Jdsa1zKqvvNOgIgp6jgtu
 b9cBv66g9i92XFDll50rlMYYGe5nJnQaQtwIUxdqrdHyjqexz+tWcZKbacsvAZun5pjeXXoW
 INmPl9sRoLP8QF02LNwVi0/nNbHl4N2fC4Cm5qDLBPneqDeN+akos5uf+lUbF0Ymf9JB10qQ
 HEeB/Eezaiy2DPkFnk/1n/Qc/B/5HDjwNW1M2uzZ2yVOM726fZlU5tw0QIr5nawFgGJcxR4E
 0FGvvpMMBjfHoFy2jshKLSJzRY6mZV5Dq8wPXtb925Ut1rmu4PrU9YEFW/umsWxXSasvqwsJ
 SH8/Gz/odv2sxfJxyu6rTNJnLGx3pyfhZHOoPrqyvykHgC7d6v6jpn7Ih9Pk5Bg1/VBkEoLp
 8uS0D9jhUkU9cJyyC8reJK3RKx0oCi14F+oGSa8C5bUqXPfWESCaZXbvbS9hyJlkBGCl0P7X
 sVyyJyRsdjSWBm1t7x0tNQzLlZWQ5AeHtUYW4IsfRwuQVDQW5OEhJy/FSjuf6Cnihv3jsFo6
 7RXHvM7EwKUdwFg00pIW9Q2BSmB1K8TETxuno8vmnswJmaSrNlgPUnk986inabiSTOgwhZnp
 yZ/JOIEAEQEAAcLBfAQYAQgAJhYhBDm2QTQ9jBBLKxRtw/nDncC5aYVEBQJpJQwSAhsMBQkC
 E0xzAAoJEPnDncC5aYVEr9oP/iZ2CmxEYafXTgpJKvQ6plCoYjh/jyyHGjmfVc6z7niHWBAP
 kesk5wsXfy74g1rB8VMOAPuvDSdqx6YumhRh26PwgPVPsVZrw6J2n5mgMg6Lx0O22eS4rZEY
 MqtjlrFHfPQPHkpnJkynOH9RXtGibLdXgOC5ydPoAeA7Hg7Yxs33RbE65M9pjlWfvnT/mWCD
 Tc2iSN2Mbmkwf4b4o2lRfqRv42v9khN/TtZ1QQ5UYrevG+Tzoe53MRtfBizWQicg36OB5pok
 2sa3tqq/08feLiPMJulMXNfCIsZdKPhjWAS+MpeKMeqHQ8CqLV27DHpBkD7JD4SaAquGjSpo
 S1wigBW8xDDyojeQ8itKLwc2AZk7KLd9I4I3xdmCInlobx9Irg3sv0GphzDLhUDppFW+qhQi
 BWOqCmVb3785peZaIygwPz+vA7NnZEtrtNGISzyRG+6OXkVg3uIL5lnclGqVrkYke2xWSJs+
 nb2qb6GKavsQWu0U2viSbOyB0M1X7z3lAfoZotrWgjcGITmKchnJEGH+jbgqZAd+GkMaSPb1
 DK2Owi0N9zkenK4iK59YQMS+1FQ2jl0LASxpM4Z8TTGltMlPf0zLfvl53G6zy7PSwWQb/9HW
 lriTmGFIiYCxyeMfpFgJxK3CLFq7qqF2bh4s8Z84m8qPDbW5XWgzEe+vZoCH
In-Reply-To: <20260503144011.42BF81A00BD@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-ID: <20260503152920.6C39D1A00BD@lists.php.net>
From: ramsey@php.net (Ben Ramsey)

On 5/3/26 09:40, Ben Ramsey wrote:
> On 5/3/26 08:11, Tim Düsterhus wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> Am 2026-03-27 19:15, schrieb Tim Düsterhus:
>>> please find the following RFC that is intended to clarify the 
>>> “Release Manager Selection” policy for future PHP versions:
>>>
>>> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/release_manager_selection_policy
>>
>> I've made some changes to the PR to streamline the language a little 
>> more and use consistent terminology to refer to various “relative” PHP 
>> versions (e.g. “upcoming PHP version” for the PHP version that we're 
>> going to elect RMs for).
>>
>> Please check the commits for more details.
>>
>> I consider this a major change. Given how quiet this discussion was, I 
>> plan to vote on the RFC once the cooldown period expires. I'll send an 
>> official intent to vote when this date comes closer.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Tim Düsterhus
> 
> 
> I still dislike the distinction of "hands-on" and "hands-off" as 
> descriptors for these roles and disagree with their use in defining 
> these roles. I said as much in my earlier message, and I'll be voting 
> "no" for the changes to the policy as it currently stands.
> 
> I think I'm in agreement with the rest of the proposal. If we can come 
> up with better terminology around the roles and make the roles less 
> about their level of involvement, then I'll probably change my vote to a 
> "yes."
> 
> Cheers,
> Ben
> 


Following up on my earlier messages, I've been thinking more about the 
terminology and have come up with a concrete suggestion.

 From my perspective, the distinction between the two roles is 
fundamentally about experience, not involvement. I don't want to define 
the roles around involvement. The policy itself already uses the word 
"veteran" to describe the qualification for the advisory role, so I'd 
suggest elevating that to the name of the role itself: "Veteran Release 
Manager" for the advisor with prior experience, and "Co-release Manager" 
for the other two. This reuses terminology already present in the policy 
text and defines the roles by what qualifies someone for them rather 
than what they're expected to do or not do. It also leaves room for the 
RMs themselves to organize their work as they see fit.

With these changes I'd be comfortable changing my vote to "yes."

Cheers,
Ben