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Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2026 09:30:05 -0500
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Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_[PHP-DEV]_Is_PHP_intentionally_following_Java=E2=80=99s_pa?=
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From: larry@garfieldtech.com ("Larry Garfield")

On Tue, Mar 24, 2026, at 8:02 PM, hao qin wrote:
> Hi internals,
>
> I=E2=80=99m a developer who uses both Java and PHP regularly, and I=E2=
=80=99m writing=20
> because I care deeply about PHP=E2=80=99s future.
>
> I=E2=80=99ve been following the language=E2=80=99s evolution closely, =
especially since=20
> PHP 7 and PHP 8. I=E2=80=99ve noticed a growing trend of adding featur=
es that=20
> feel very "enterprise-oriented" =E2=80=94 such as typed properties, at=
tributes,=20
> and property hooks. While I understand the value of these features in=20
> certain contexts, I can=E2=80=99t help but wonder: is PHP intentionall=
y=20
> following Java=E2=80=99s path?
>
> I ask this not as criticism, but out of genuine curiosity about the=20
> language=E2=80=99s direction. PHP=E2=80=99s traditional strength has b=
een simplicity,=20
> pragmatism, and being web-native. Java, on the other hand, excels in=20
> large-scale enterprise ecosystems with strong type safety and tooling.
>
> From a developer=E2=80=99s perspective, when I see PHP adding more Jav=
a-like=20
> features, it makes me question whether the goal is to compete with Jav=
a=20
> in the enterprise space =E2=80=94 or if these additions are meant to s=
olve=20
> specific problems without changing PHP=E2=80=99s core identity.
>
> I=E2=80=99d really appreciate it if you could share some insight into =
how the=20
> internals team views this balance. Is there a conscious effort to avoi=
d=20
> making PHP feel like "Java for the web"? Or is the thinking that these=20
> features are simply useful tools, regardless of where they originate?
>
> Thank you for all the hard work you put into maintaining and evolving=20
> PHP. I=E2=80=99m looking forward to understanding more about where the=
 language=20
> is headed.
>
> Best regards,
> [haoqin]

Did you just post an almost-identical thread the other day?  Because the=
 above looks like it's largely quoting from the other post.

But to the point, PHP doesn't have a formal "direction."  There is no ro=
admap.  It's just a bunch of people throwing stuff at the wall to see wh=
at sticks.  One could argue (and we frequently do) whether that's a good=
 or bad approach, but it is the current approach.

In most cases, RFCs are designed to "scratch an itch."  Sometimes that i=
tch is larger or more abstract than others, but it's generally always "t=
his would make the author's life easier in some way."  And if it passes,=
 it's because enough other people agree.

There is no coordinated plan to "imitate Java."  But neither is there a =
coordinated plan to avoid Java.  PHP is like English: It evolves by beat=
ing up other languages in dark alleys and going through their pockets fo=
r loose syntax.  If we find an idea in C# that seems like it would work =
well in PHP, we steal it.  If we find an idea in Kotlin, we steal it.  I=
f we find it in TypeScript, we steal it.  If we find it in Ruby, we stea=
l it.  If we find it in F#, we steal it.  PHP is an equal-opportunity la=
nguage-feature-thief.  Other ideas are indeed home-grown in PHP, like th=
e upcoming Partial Function Application syntax, which AFAIK is unique to=
 PHP.

People always seem to compare to Java when making this kind of comment, =
which I find... very odd.  Java was one of the first popular OOP languag=
es, but OOP is a lot more than just Java.  And it's not even the most-fe=
atured language by a long shot at the moment.  Hell, Javascript is more =
popular (because web).  So why is it any time someone objects to adding =
new features, it's always "making PHP more like Java"?  Why not "more li=
ke Kotlin" (which is where we borrowed the property hooks syntax from)? =
 Or more like Swift (where the asymmetric visibility syntax came from)? =
 Or more like OCAML (where the pipe operator came from)?  Or more like R=
ust (which is our long-term goal for enums and ATDs)?

As I said, we're an equal opportunity language-feature-thief.

--Larry Garfield