Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:129885
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAMW7n8B9XHzF5ND21-hNYtw26EnE+0b+W0Nv=wb_ayMmu4CbKw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMW7n8C1m08+pKKYBGkMnNZmGmu-_kkxS-r_SCuRupBY+RHe5A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CANCsWvfXWDjdmKFFQvV0Ger6yNVSfOhQqnbyTr7bEQHSjmXyLg@mail.gmail.com>
 <79CDB2CC-E397-436E-B5A2-10DA1E451A97@rwec.co.uk> <CAMW7n8BJcC-X-sA0NB_oQLfzry+331TfO1uhvNDGZcoSxe7bFQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <D427F18D-CDEC-4DDE-8169-71F8156F2E48@rwec.co.uk> <CAMW7n8BjxUUiizXbD1Lb526WsV=6erew-rK70gvMoWoQ2sqDmQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADK1yX+fA2epqOn2rcesmVBZMj4taeARhyuNdTky9aH4B6NhWg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMW7n8ALJ2w7iSwVX1TvyiosN_dzj=0NV0XBRZeQ3Hdov98C6Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEKnhAFbU5H3qs-s0_FsT6w1Bu8n6HD+BQRt1SoOCUwa3XtT_w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMW7n8CFOafm21nbzPRx35ZXKzi-B0WC+7=X7dJMT=f=GDan-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <9f2fb78d-143e-c84a-8243-97e0352497e4@php.net> <CAMW7n8C41JB14qNM9SqjUEk3_nYMegMqUywR2if6g0YCLKFZ+g@mail.gmail.com>
 <9d2962b9-2278-4fae-9241-9def0f33711f@app.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <9d2962b9-2278-4fae-9241-9def0f33711f@app.fastmail.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2026 07:52:37 -0300
Message-ID: <CADK1yXKfUeHMHwKG0waVc9geizesxGps-GDdCmA+yttx43L2gg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] True Async RFC 1.7
To: Rob Landers <rob@bottled.codes>
Cc: Edmond Dantes <edmond.ht@gmail.com>, Derick Rethans <derick@php.net>, Jakub Zelenka <bukka@php.net>, 
	php internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000040804806490bf517"
From: deleugyn@gmail.com (Deleu)

--00000000000040804806490bf517
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Fri, 23 Jan 2026 at 07:27 Rob Landers <rob@bottled.codes> wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 22, 2026, at 19:11, Edmond Dantes wrote:
>
> > I think doing such a large project, mainly by
> > yourself as the sole designed and developer, is doomed to fail. It isn'=
t
> > something I would be confident about voting for, at least.
>
> One of the reasons this project doesn=E2=80=99t have more programmers is =
that
> nobody believes it will be accepted.
> In other words, your fear of voting for the project is the reason
> there are no developers.
>
>
> I don=E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99s universally true, or at least it has=
n=E2=80=99t been my
> experience.
>
> I=E2=80=99ve worked on plenty of projects that ultimately failed, and the=
 risk of
> failure itself isn=E2=80=99t a blocker for me. I=E2=80=99ve read through =
the code, I
> understand the design, and I=E2=80=99ve worked on schedulers and low-leve=
l systems
> before. From a purely technical standpoint, this is work I=E2=80=99d norm=
ally be
> very interested in contributing to.
>
> When I personally stepped back, it wasn=E2=80=99t due to doubts about acc=
eptance,
> but due to the way feedback and collaboration have played out so far. In
> both on-list and off-list discussions, I didn=E2=80=99t see concrete feed=
back being
> meaningfully incorporated, even at a small or incremental level. That mad=
e
> it hard for me to gauge whether collaboration would actually influence th=
e
> direction of the project.
>
> I want to be clear about something important, though: this isn=E2=80=99t =
a lack of
> interest in asynchronous capabilities in PHP, nor a lack of willingness t=
o
> help. I think many people would like to see PHP move forward here. But fo=
r
> a project of this size and impact, contributors need to feel that concern=
s
> are being heard, trade-offs are being explored together, and iteration is
> genuinely collaborative.
>
> If the process moves in that direction, breaking things down, explicitly
> engaging with criticism, and evolving the design based on shared input, I
> think you may find that more people are willing to invest time and energy
> into it.
>
>
> =E2=80=94 Rob
>


I share the exact same sentiment here. The likelihood that the project
might fail is actually the reason why I keep coming back and trying to
contribute to the conversation and I would actually be happy to help steer
the project towards an approval. But every reply I write is dismissed as if
I=E2=80=99m just wrong in what I=E2=80=99m saying, which is either true and=
 someone else
who isn=E2=80=99t wrong will be a better contributor or is false and there =
is no
way for me to help the project get approved under the dismissive attitude.

>

--00000000000040804806490bf517
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">On Fri, 23 Jan 2026 at 07:27 Rob Landers &lt;rob@bottled.=
codes&gt; wrote:<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail=
_quote_container"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;b=
order-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><u></u><div><div>On Thu, Jan 22, 2026, a=
t 19:11, Edmond Dantes wrote:</div><blockquote type=3D"cite" id=3D"m_420927=
5072089976969qt"><div>&gt; I think doing such a large project, mainly by</d=
iv><div>&gt; yourself as the sole designed and developer, is doomed to fail=
. It isn&#39;t</div><div>&gt; something I would be confident about voting f=
or, at least.</div><div><br></div><div>One of the reasons this project does=
n=E2=80=99t have more programmers is that</div><div>nobody believes it will=
 be accepted.</div><div>In other words, your fear of voting for the project=
 is the reason</div><div>there are no developers.</div></blockquote><div><b=
r></div><div>I don=E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99s universally true, or at l=
east it hasn=E2=80=99t been my experience.</div><div><br></div><div>I=E2=80=
=99ve worked on plenty of projects that ultimately failed, and the risk of =
failure itself isn=E2=80=99t a blocker for me. I=E2=80=99ve read through th=
e code, I understand the design, and I=E2=80=99ve worked on schedulers and =
low-level systems before. From a purely technical standpoint, this is work =
I=E2=80=99d normally be very interested in contributing to.</div><div><br><=
/div><div>When I personally stepped back, it wasn=E2=80=99t due to doubts a=
bout acceptance, but due to the way feedback and collaboration have played =
out so far. In both on-list and off-list discussions, I didn=E2=80=99t see =
concrete feedback being meaningfully incorporated, even at a small or incre=
mental level. That made it hard for me to gauge whether collaboration would=
 actually influence the direction of the project.</div><div><br></div><div>=
I want to be clear about something important, though: this isn=E2=80=99t a =
lack of interest in asynchronous capabilities in PHP, nor a lack of willing=
ness to help. I think many people would like to see PHP move forward here. =
But for a project of this size and impact, contributors need to feel that c=
oncerns are being heard, trade-offs are being explored together, and iterat=
ion is genuinely collaborative.</div><div><br></div><div>If the process mov=
es in that direction, breaking things down, explicitly engaging with critic=
ism, and evolving the design based on shared input, I think you may find th=
at more people are willing to invest time and energy into it.</div></div><d=
iv><div><br></div><div><br></div><div id=3D"m_4209275072089976969sig1212291=
52">=E2=80=94 Rob</div></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I share the exact same sentiment h=
ere. The likelihood that the project might fail is actually the reason why =
I keep coming back and trying to contribute to the conversation and I would=
 actually be happy to help steer the project towards an approval. But every=
 reply I write is dismissed as if I=E2=80=99m just wrong in what I=E2=80=99=
m saying, which is either true and someone else who isn=E2=80=99t wrong wil=
l be a better contributor or is false and there is no way for me to help th=
e project get approved under the dismissive attitude.</div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;b=
order-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"=
><div><div id=3D"m_4209275072089976969sig121229152" dir=3D"auto"></div></di=
v></blockquote></div></div>

--00000000000040804806490bf517--