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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2026 17:14:38 -0300
Message-ID: <CADK1yX+fA2epqOn2rcesmVBZMj4taeARhyuNdTky9aH4B6NhWg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] True Async RFC 1.7
To: Edmond Dantes <edmond.ht@gmail.com>
Cc: internals@lists.php.net
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From: deleugyn@gmail.com (Deleu)

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On Wed, Jan 21, 2026 at 4:29=E2=80=AFPM Edmond Dantes <edmond.ht@gmail.com>=
 wrote:

> Regarding the group, I want to once again express an important point.
> The main problem, the primary blocking issue, is that nobody believes
> this RFC has any real chance.
>
> It=E2=80=99s like in the banking system: if you convince people that stoc=
ks
> will fall, then even if it=E2=80=99s not true, the stocks will fall.
>
> At the same time, I agree with this assessment.
> We are facing a paradox.
>
> To make changes to the language, you need to believe that these
> changes can be accepted. Previously, there were doubts about whether
> such changes could even be implemented. That problem has been solved.
> What remains is the lack of trust in acceptance.
> How can this be resolved? I think there are ways, and they are known.
> They are just all outside the scope of the current RFC.
>
> ----
> Ed
>

I doubt the problem is about trust. You can trust that a company will not
go bankrupt, you still need to understand how to operate and buy stocks. I
think most readers are more likely to agree that you've put a tremendous
amount of work forward and it's not that hard to trust you've done a great
job so far. But if we don't know how things work, we can't help you make
even better decisions nor can we make use of what you've built.

I also don't think it's fair to expect from PHP's RFC process a position
of: "trust me, this is the best, lets just merge it". Even if you were the
best and smartest software engineer in the world, PHP is used by an
immeasurable amount of people from all backgrounds, in many contexts and
many approaches. Its not humanly possible for a single individual to know
every possible way PHP is used and the RFC process is here for people from
many backgrounds to provide their own perspective of things and voice how
they think such a change will affect them or their project - be it a
positive or a negative impact.

Right now, I think the "fairest" assumption is that we don't have many such
voices because nobody can read, understand, interpret and predict how this
RFC would play out in their projects and their work. It's far too big of a
change with too many concepts, mainly foreign to many people working with
PHP and there isn't a clear path of contributing to the discussion.

How do we solve that?

--=20
Marco Deleu

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote g=
mail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jan 21,=
 2026 at 4:29=E2=80=AFPM Edmond Dantes &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:edmond.ht@gmai=
l.com">edmond.ht@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,2=
04,204);padding-left:1ex">Regarding the group, I want to once again express=
 an important point.<br>
The main problem, the primary blocking issue, is that nobody believes<br>
this RFC has any real chance.<br>
<br>
It=E2=80=99s like in the banking system: if you convince people that stocks=
<br>
will fall, then even if it=E2=80=99s not true, the stocks will fall.<br>
<br>
At the same time, I agree with this assessment.<br>
We are facing a paradox.<br>
<br>
To make changes to the language, you need to believe that these<br>
changes can be accepted. Previously, there were doubts about whether<br>
such changes could even be implemented. That problem has been solved.<br>
What remains is the lack of trust in acceptance.<br>
How can this be resolved? I think there are ways, and they are known.<br>
They are just all outside the scope of the current RFC.<br>
<br>
----<br>
Ed<br>
</blockquote></div><div><br clear=3D"all"></div><div>I doubt the problem is=
 about trust. You can trust that a company will not go bankrupt, you still =
need to understand how to operate and buy stocks. I think most readers are =
more likely to agree that you&#39;ve put a tremendous amount of work forwar=
d and it&#39;s=C2=A0not that hard to trust you&#39;ve done a great job so f=
ar. But if we don&#39;t know how things work, we can&#39;t help you make ev=
en better decisions nor can we make use of what you&#39;ve built.</div><div=
><br></div><div>I also don&#39;t think it&#39;s fair to expect from PHP&#39=
;s RFC process a position of: &quot;trust me, this is the best, lets just m=
erge it&quot;. Even if you were the best and smartest software engineer in =
the world, PHP is used by an immeasurable amount of people from all backgro=
unds, in many contexts and many approaches. Its not humanly possible for a =
single individual to know every possible way PHP is used and the RFC proces=
s is here for people from many backgrounds to provide their own perspective=
 of things and voice how they think such a change will affect them or their=
 project - be it a positive or a negative impact.</div><div><br></div><div>=
Right now, I think the &quot;fairest&quot; assumption is that we don&#39;t =
have many such voices because nobody can read, understand, interpret and pr=
edict how this RFC would play out in their projects and their work. It&#39;=
s far too big of a change with too many concepts, mainly foreign to many pe=
ople working with PHP and there isn&#39;t a clear path of contributing to t=
he discussion.</div><div><br></div><div>How do we solve that?</div><div><br=
></div><span class=3D"gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D"ltr=
" class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Mar=
co Deleu</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

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