Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:129611
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAJp_myV9+kxx-eA+cja-Fu5dJhDZgzhgpBpiZFWqqW-_zrNreQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <70A79513-5503-467E-BC6F-2B0494A3EBB9@benramsey.com>
In-Reply-To: <70A79513-5503-467E-BC6F-2B0494A3EBB9@benramsey.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2025 21:21:48 -0300
Message-ID: <CADK1yXJgPsZJ5+qepDotrMMtRm8TtG95wS7UNpvd8D=Pm-+BOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Context Managers
To: Ben Ramsey <ben@benramsey.com>
Cc: "Matthew Weier O'Phinney" <mweierophinney@gmail.com>, Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.com>, 
	php internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004f1397064606b705"
From: deleugyn@gmail.com (Deleu)

--0000000000004f1397064606b705
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, 15 Dec 2025 at 20:01 Ben Ramsey <ben@benramsey.com> wrote:

>
>> Since the only feedback on what to use for "as" was that =3D> makes sens=
e,
>> we have changed the RFC to use =3D> instead.  So the new syntax is
>>
>> using (new CM() =3D> $cVar) {
>>   // Do stuff here.
>> }
>>
>
> Going to be controversial here, but this is confusing, because it operate=
s
> in the exact opposite of every other usage of =3D> we have. With associat=
ive
> arrays, the left is assigned to the expression on the right; with arrow
> functions, the return value is the expression on the right; with match, t=
he
> expression on the right is returned.
>
> This is going to be easy to get wrong.
>
>>
> I agree with Matthew.
>
> I think it makes more sense to reverse them, like this:
>
>     using ($cVar =3D> new CM()) {
>         // Do stuff here.
>     }
>
> I think it=E2=80=99s still clear what this is doing, when reading it.
>
> Cheers,
> Ben
>

I also agree with Matthew but the reversed proposed here looks very very
awkward to me. I think the most natural thing is the =E2=80=9Cas=E2=80=9D b=
ut I may have
missed the discussion on why it had to be changed.

Thinking of foreach ($array as $value), an item from the array (left) is
assigned to $value (right). That seems symmetrical to using (new Manager as
$manager) where the instance (left) is assigned to the variable (right).
Also when using aliases on the top of the file =E2=80=9Cuse Foo as Bar;=E2=
=80=9D as is also
assigning the left to the right.

--0000000000004f1397064606b705
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">On Mon, 15 Dec 2025 at 20:01 Ben Ramsey &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:ben@benramsey.com">ben@benramsey.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><div dir=3D"a=
uto"><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border=
-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div=
 dir=3D"auto"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"auto">=
<div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)" dir=3D"auto">
<br>
Since the only feedback on what to use for &quot;as&quot; was that =3D&gt; =
makes sense, we have changed the RFC to use =3D&gt; instead.=C2=A0 So the n=
ew syntax is<br>
<br>
using (new CM() =3D&gt; $cVar) {<br>
=C2=A0 // Do stuff here.<br>
}<br></blockquote></div></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"=
>Going to be controversial here, but this is confusing, because it operates=
 in the exact opposite of every other usage of =3D&gt; we have. With associ=
ative arrays, the left is assigned to the expression on the right; with arr=
ow functions, the return value is the expression on the right; with match, =
the expression on the right is returned.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br><=
/div><div dir=3D"auto">This is going to be easy to get wrong.=C2=A0</div><d=
iv dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style=
:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)">
</blockquote></div></div></div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I agree with Matthew.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>I think it makes more sense to reverse them, like this:</div><di=
v><span><br></span></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<span>using ($cVar =3D&gt;=
 new CM()) {</span></div><div><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 // Do stuff=
 here.</span></div><div><span>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }</span></div><div><span><br></=
span></div><div><span>I think it=E2=80=99s still clear what this is doing, =
when reading it.</span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div><span>Cheers,=
</span></div><div><span>Ben</span></div><div><span></span></div></div></blo=
ckquote><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I also agree with Mat=
thew but the reversed proposed here looks very very awkward to me. I think =
the most natural thing is the =E2=80=9Cas=E2=80=9D but I may have missed th=
e discussion on why it had to be changed.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"auto">Thinking of foreach ($array as $value), an item fro=
m the array (left) is assigned to $value (right). That seems symmetrical to=
 using (new Manager as $manager) where the instance (left) is assigned to t=
he variable (right). Also when using aliases on the top of the file =E2=80=
=9Cuse Foo as Bar;=E2=80=9D as is also assigning the left to the right.=C2=
=A0</div></div></div>

--0000000000004f1397064606b705--