Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:129456
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAMW7n8Dogjj2JFJBNArk-BfvOHRqHKMAFReXJAhDm2UPV1TF7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <92865666.4510.1763818506332@email.ionos.de> <CAMW7n8AycfX4NMfjJ+GzFsPqRaSae-t7Cm3H5z8apRzXUgaVZw@mail.gmail.com>
 <329450798.8037.1763822426377@email.ionos.de> <CAMW7n8DTt2S_RfcyshERixed=qqyFUPEvWp_MpgpW_CvH3urXQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMW7n8CUQxqh4_rTWQBcj+t17i5oW7x-V96FSkwZL85Z2pzrRw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAB9bCb34cmu9=an9K4rubPSVEDwyWH-rMAVtTTYa3U-LA+GJ+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMW7n8DM4MCP25gSLBbd3+Awzs2+p6Qs_jPgx1mk=RjSVe+iUw@mail.gmail.com>
 <9287c46c-bc63-4dd0-9792-0f9421959589@rwec.co.uk> <CAMW7n8AhbBawCBtfNJZ6XzFSvwhtZotfgBmb1O4CDZ+J2jxt2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <C766271D-EE7A-4727-8A7C-B117429768E5@rwec.co.uk> <CAMW7n8Bk+AhbXjg8QADFo=2k9qCE54DD68Hxkf2k_9J=EFboUQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <65869feb-d518-4de3-8c10-115e3ba7dce7@rwec.co.uk> <CAMW7n8CA6gfdWzhVCY3j4w_=S-rZW5sUvkSL_e4+hc_Ka+r1rA@mail.gmail.com>
 <55149f3e-7ec7-4479-bd6d-2e7fe1b8edef@rwec.co.uk> <CAMW7n8Cfs9+wEpGVp5C2VL3ey8vKUNS2NyJAq+w7-DJXg172Dw@mail.gmail.com>
 <19693420-c091-49b7-b557-e09717239d9b@rwec.co.uk> <CAMW7n8DUGhai5v95_5Nv6Vxuj1CuhmnFOVnAPVW2ao37agQkzw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAB9bCb2WB5=pmfUQAtWHYCeUs6uhbe+QxeWOzU3jgqCA7y0s9w@mail.gmail.com> <CAMW7n8CPK3=zSnGnLXU6Hac_whVf3Jy-6jgVfAizL1chTob3aQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAMW7n8CPK3=zSnGnLXU6Hac_whVf3Jy-6jgVfAizL1chTob3aQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2025 11:57:41 -0500
Message-ID: <CAEUnE0fvU2Xiktk3Xzj_2OJDUvvey3HxnTrnvoH=nfDSXMRVcA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] True Async RFC 1.6
To: internals@lists.php.net
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000030dbbe06446e2ee2"
From: tendoaki@gmail.com (Michael Morris)

--00000000000030dbbe06446e2ee2
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Again, I'm of the opinion that this vote is premature and needs to be
halted.

Edmond had done extraordinary effort and proved that an async
implementation is possible. And his solution may indeed be the route to go.
But perhaps settle back and target this for 9.0 instead of 8.6, which will
give whatever implementation is chosen freedom to make breaking changes
should they be absolutely necessary. I'd also recommend an RFC to commit to
having async in 9 in some form without committing to any specific
implementation and set out the goals. I think passing that alone is
significant.

Furthermore, everyone remembers the PHP 6 debacle of committing to full
unicode support and then discovering halfway into the process that such was
a far bigger bear than realized.  Edmond has explored the async problem
space well enough I think that we can be sure that an implementation is
possible. Rushing to commit in the first prototype though I feel is a
mistake.

Not that what I say has much weight - I'm a moron compared to most of you,
but I try.

On Tue, Nov 25, 2025 at 10:45=E2=80=AFAM Edmond Dantes <edmond.ht@gmail.com=
> wrote:

> Hello
>
> > Anyway, it seems like we're coming to the conclusion that mixing sync
> and async behavior is going to cause quite some problems and is something
> that would not pass a vote if I had to guess. Even if you know what you'r=
e
> doing YMMV.
>
> The main question is how much code needs to be changed.
> The example I gave with `file_put_contents` is a typical source of errors=
.
> It is easy to fix, but not always easy to detect.
>
> Maybe we can improve this situation.
> This requires discussion.
>

--00000000000030dbbe06446e2ee2
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Again, I&#39;m of the opinion that this vote is premature =
and needs to be halted.<div><br></div><div>Edmond had done extraordinary ef=
fort and proved that an async implementation is possible. And his solution =
may indeed be the route to go. But perhaps settle back and target this for =
9.0 instead of 8.6, which will give whatever=C2=A0implementation is chosen =
freedom to make breaking changes should they be absolutely necessary. I&#39=
;d also recommend an RFC to commit to having async in 9 in some form withou=
t committing to any specific implementation=C2=A0and set out the goals. I t=
hink passing that alone is significant.</div><div><br></div><div>Furthermor=
e, everyone remembers the PHP 6 debacle of committing=C2=A0to full unicode =
support and then discovering halfway into the process that such was a far b=
igger bear than realized.=C2=A0 Edmond has explored the async problem space=
 well enough I think that we can be sure that an implementation=C2=A0is pos=
sible. Rushing to commit in the first prototype though I feel is a mistake.=
</div><div><br></div><div>Not that what I say has much weight - I&#39;m a m=
oron compared to most of you, but I try.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue,=
 Nov 25, 2025 at 10:45=E2=80=AFAM Edmond Dantes &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:edmon=
d.ht@gmail.com">edmond.ht@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hello<br>
<br>
&gt; Anyway, it seems like we&#39;re coming to the conclusion that mixing s=
ync and async behavior is going to cause quite some problems and is somethi=
ng that would not pass a vote if I had to guess. Even if you know what you&=
#39;re doing YMMV.<br>
<br>
The main question is how much code needs to be changed.<br>
The example I gave with `file_put_contents` is a typical source of errors.<=
br>
It is easy to fix, but not always easy to detect.<br>
<br>
Maybe we can improve this situation.<br>
This requires discussion.<br>
</blockquote></div>

--00000000000030dbbe06446e2ee2--