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In-Reply-To: <CAJ6fn9N6z2sLr19RR_Zw65zT9mw1jf_cdJqtbZTcSu0=joOGaA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2025 22:18:13 -0300
Message-ID: <CADK1yXJQNbk7p2AXkL3rsT4LizmGQFinuVESp37Ue7+nr8wX_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] True Async RFC 1.6
To: internals@lists.php.net
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From: deleugyn@gmail.com (Deleu)

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On Sun, 23 Nov 2025 at 21:29 Lu=C3=ADs Vin=C3=ADcius Santos da Costa Barros=
 <
luisvscbarros@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I have serious concerns about any approach that may cause the event loop
> to block. The correct ways to handle this should not involve blocking the
> loop =E2=80=94 whether globally or in a scoped manner =E2=80=94 while att=
empting to let
> synchronous and asynchronous code coexist in the same environment. More
> appropriate alternatives would be offloading execution to another thread
> (which is far too complex for the current VM and ecosystem) or relying on
> preemption (which is not feasible to implement here).
>
> In addition, the cascading effects of such an approach are significant:
> libraries would be forced to implement internal mechanisms just to deal
> with unexpected loop stalls and similar issues.
>
> It would be much healthier for new libraries to be designed specifically
> for the asynchronous environment, in the same way Laravel created Octane =
to
> run on top of Swoole.
>

If I could summarize months of discussion on this RFC, the primary topic
would be the consensus that we do not want to have a split in the
community. If every PHP package needs an adapter to be async compatible
that essentially means the efforts to not break the community in half has
failed.

A different way to look at it may be that it=E2=80=99s not so much about bl=
ocking
the event loop, but rather not even having an event loop in the first place
(in case you=E2=80=99re running sync-PHP). And if you=E2=80=99re partially =
running async at
an isolated area, then once that returns and all coroutines are finished
the event loop may also finish and we=E2=80=99re back to sync.

>

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<div dir=3D"auto">On Sun, 23 Nov 2025 at 21:29 Lu=C3=ADs Vin=C3=ADcius Sant=
os da Costa Barros &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:luisvscbarros@gmail.com">luisvscba=
rros@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gmai=
l_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;paddi=
ng-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Hello,<br><br>I have serious concerns about any approach that may =
cause the event loop to block. The correct ways to handle this should not i=
nvolve blocking the loop =E2=80=94 whether globally or in a scoped manner =
=E2=80=94 while attempting to let synchronous and asynchronous code coexist=
 in the same environment. More appropriate alternatives would be offloading=
 execution to another thread (which is far too complex for the current VM a=
nd ecosystem) or relying on preemption (which is not feasible to implement =
here).<br><br>In addition, the cascading effects of such an approach are si=
gnificant: libraries would be forced to implement internal mechanisms just =
to deal with unexpected loop stalls and similar issues.<br><br>It would be =
much healthier for new libraries to be designed specifically for the asynch=
ronous environment, in the same way Laravel created Octane to run on top of=
 Swoole.</div></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"au=
to">If I could summarize months of discussion on this RFC, the primary topi=
c would be the consensus that we do not want to have a split in the communi=
ty. If every PHP package needs an adapter to be async compatible that essen=
tially means the efforts to not break the community in half has failed.=C2=
=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">A different way to l=
ook at it may be that it=E2=80=99s not so much about blocking the event loo=
p, but rather not even having an event loop in the first place (in case you=
=E2=80=99re running sync-PHP). And if you=E2=80=99re partially running asyn=
c at an isolated area, then once that returns and all coroutines are finish=
ed the event loop may also finish and we=E2=80=99re back to sync.</div><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left=
-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(2=
04,204,204)"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div></div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-=
left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><div>
  </div>

</blockquote></div>
</div>
</blockquote></div></div>

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