Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:129376
Feedback-ID: id5114917:Fastmail
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2025 17:56:41 +0000
To: internals@lists.php.net
CC: Jakub Zelenka <bukka@php.net>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] True Async RFC 1.6
User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android
In-Reply-To: <CADK1yX+jGtqQVYFTo5YmkenPrNcXz7Dd7RCUKWGrq+50pnKOnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMW7n8D0QshP8VhGOUqVnC+Uwf88TC_yy_mQdeNZW_go5YLdcw@mail.gmail.com> <C58ADF49-6E21-4E25-8859-2A0769829E38@php.net> <e8625214-1c6f-40b8-b24f-e592e6f92012@beccati.com> <CAMW7n8Dy3=QyCrG4BMwVXWAipgOr2Vyhy_jbLVTYeq2Jc5v15g@mail.gmail.com> <dbc31109-a43d-4afc-9f4f-62c6439328e5@rwec.co.uk> <ea59722c-2c84-4a59-a442-a8b217ff577d@gmail.com> <b151687a-f4bd-48cf-90e6-440f763ccd6b@rwec.co.uk> <CAMW7n8CLZ7yFhUhh89wx7L+YwQ25LA7HZoGWUFB3R76KgXko2w@mail.gmail.com> <CAEKnhAHRPbiU4auDuTtFL2ueNnACjmYm_ff9c3VciYE9HfeGZg@mail.gmail.com> <CAMW7n8D5B=XVX_Jes+LV=2fPwjQr_RBVphPi_Cxm8-_Rwpdo_Q@mail.gmail.com> <CADK1yX+jGtqQVYFTo5YmkenPrNcXz7Dd7RCUKWGrq+50pnKOnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E5BD2EB9-803E-4643-9342-1EB6535B4D87@rwec.co.uk>
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
 charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From: imsop.php@rwec.co.uk ("Rowan Tommins [IMSoP]")

On 21 November 2025 13:06:30 GMT, Deleu <deleugyn@gmail=2Ecom> wrote:
>Here is a very simple hypothetical:
>Suppose I run a website and I have very little understanding of PHP, but =
I
>know the basics=2E Every Monday I run `composer update`, do a little test=
ing
>and deploy the website=2E Suppose next Monday when I run `composer update=
`
>one of my dependencies (Package A) starts to pull in AMPHP as its nested
>dependency=2E When I try to open my website locally it will either have
>everything broken or it will just work regularly and nothing will be
>running async=2E There is no other option=2E
>Now suppose the same example but with PHP 9 + TrueAsync=2E I do `composer
>update` one day and test my home page and it works=2E But deeply nested
>somewhere there is a feature that will use Package A which then spawns a
>coroutine and leads to my global state code behaving weirdly=2E It's not =
a
>fatal error=2E It's not very clear at all to me that something changed, b=
ut
>now my array indexes are triggering DB updates out of order=2E


This is basically the exact scenario I had in mind=2E

For me, having a cast-iron way to avoid this problem is a hard requirement=
 for releasing a version of PHP with True Async included=2E Whether that's =
an ini setting, an annotation that protects particular parts of the code, e=
tc, is detail we can work out later, but it must be a design requirement th=
at protecting legacy code in some way is possible=2E

Debugging tools would be a useful addition, but wouldn't replace the off s=
witch=2E I know for a fact that there are applications I will want to run o=
n PHP 9 which will never be worth the investment to make async-ready=2E Oth=
er applications, I might well run in sync mode initially, then test and ena=
ble async=2E

And this again highlights why we need a project structure, where we can ag=
ree selected details of the design, with known outstanding issues=2E I want=
 to be able to say "I approve of the design so far, with the understanding =
that X, Y and Z will be addressed before final release"=2E

Regards,

Rowan Tommins
[IMSoP]