Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:129361
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAMW7n8D0QshP8VhGOUqVnC+Uwf88TC_yy_mQdeNZW_go5YLdcw@mail.gmail.com>
 <C58ADF49-6E21-4E25-8859-2A0769829E38@php.net> <e8625214-1c6f-40b8-b24f-e592e6f92012@beccati.com>
 <CAMW7n8Dy3=QyCrG4BMwVXWAipgOr2Vyhy_jbLVTYeq2Jc5v15g@mail.gmail.com>
 <dbc31109-a43d-4afc-9f4f-62c6439328e5@rwec.co.uk> <ea59722c-2c84-4a59-a442-a8b217ff577d@gmail.com>
 <b151687a-f4bd-48cf-90e6-440f763ccd6b@rwec.co.uk> <CAMW7n8CLZ7yFhUhh89wx7L+YwQ25LA7HZoGWUFB3R76KgXko2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEKnhAHRPbiU4auDuTtFL2ueNnACjmYm_ff9c3VciYE9HfeGZg@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAEKnhAHRPbiU4auDuTtFL2ueNnACjmYm_ff9c3VciYE9HfeGZg@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2025 14:06:08 +0200
Message-ID: <CAMW7n8D5B=XVX_Jes+LV=2fPwjQr_RBVphPi_Cxm8-_Rwpdo_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [VOTE] True Async RFC 1.6
To: Jakub Zelenka <bukka@php.net>
Cc: "Rowan Tommins [IMSoP]" <imsop.php@rwec.co.uk>, internals@lists.php.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From: edmond.ht@gmail.com (Edmond Dantes)

Hello

> I think you seriously underestimate impact of this in the current PHP cod=
e bases where many applications depend on global state.
Do I really look like someone who could underestimate memory-related issues=
? :)

> Now imagine that some popular plugin decides to use async which change so=
me of its globals (like $post or $wp_query) during the suspension of the ma=
in code. I would assume this could horribly break things.
Or for example, you run an old WordPress on the new PHP 8.5 and
everything breaks. Is that a reason not to release new PHP versions?
No, I=E2=80=99m not joking. That=E2=80=99s literally the essence of the arg=
ument. If
something might break, then we shouldn=E2=80=99t do it?

This is a common story. There is a framework that is adapted to a
technology, and there is a framework or library that is not adapted to
it.
If a framework is not adapted, you simply won=E2=80=99t be able to use the
technology. So why is this considered a problem?
However, inside WordPress you will still be able to use coroutines as
long as you don=E2=80=99t call WP functions that aren=E2=80=99t adapted. Yo=
u can. So
why is this a problem?

I can use AMPHP inside WordPress and break WP.
So does that mean we must urgently remove Fiber from the language?
Because AMPHP uses Fiber, and AMPHP implements coroutines. And
coroutines break WordPress.
Asynchrony already exists in PHP. You can write async code today.
Which means you can already do all the =E2=80=9Chorrors=E2=80=9D you=E2=80=
=99re talking about.
TrueAsync cannot change that. And no one else can change it either.
So why is this being treated as an argument against it?

> Don't forget that other code don't have control over the plugin and it mi=
ght not even know that async is used there.
Exactly. This means that right now I can use Fiber plus select() to
write async code and break WordPress.
And I can also write a plugin that divides by zero and crashes
WordPress, and WordPress won=E2=80=99t know anything about it.

> So I'm not sure if this design is compatible with WordPress

Yes, WordPress is not compatible with asynchrony. I=E2=80=99ll emphasize
again. This is not about TrueAsync specifically. This is about
asynchrony itself. Yes, WordPress and Laravel are not compatible with
concurrent execution. That=E2=80=99s true.
But are you **really suggesting** that because of this, all other
applications should be denied the ability to use it?
Moreover, would you deny WordPress itself the possibility of
supporting asynchrony in future? After all, WordPress can be
refactored. It=E2=80=99s not carved in stone.

Wouldn=E2=80=99t WordPress benefit from the performance improvements that
async provides?
Wouldn=E2=80=99t WordPress plugins benefit from being able to actively
communicate with microservices and deliver the fastest possible
responses to JavaScript?

Is this feature really something nobody needs? If yes, then I have no
further questions.

Async is needed to increase throughput. That=E2=80=99s the purpose. If a PH=
P
project doesn=E2=80=99t need it, it doesn=E2=80=99t have to use it. That=E2=
=80=99s fine. But
there are PHP projects that do need it.