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Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2025 15:56:20 +0200
Message-ID: <CAMW7n8Abd9zgh2f1dweQOfE2=zKoz8G3LfgSo8rNguM39YPhaw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: A Thank you (was Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP True Async RFC Stage 5)
To: Deleu <deleugyn@gmail.com>
Cc: Michael Morris <tendoaki@gmail.com>, php internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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From: edmond.ht@gmail.com (Edmond Dantes)

> why the other 90% hasn=E2=80=99t used any of these existing approaches

Five or more years ago, when the question of improving performance
came up and Swoole was being considered, I rejected it. Why? Because
it wasn=E2=80=99t part of PHP. That was the reason.
If Swoole became the PHP standard, our company would most likely switch to =
it.
Because support from the PHP community is a long-term guarantee, which
means the time and money invested will not be wasted.

> Your target audience is exactly the opposite of what you expect.
If my audience consists of people who need new knowledge, that=E2=80=99s a
different story!

> A negative result is not really a surprise at this point.
I don=E2=80=99t see any way to make this RFC clearer.
I doubt the problem is in the text.

>  They will attempt to address it before going deeper and deeper and will =
be met with a dismissive response from the author =E2=80=9Cbecause this is =
too basic and we shouldn=E2=80=99t focus on it=E2=80=9D.
The problem is not a lack of willingness to discuss the basics, but
that the discussion should move toward clarifying the details. And
that is exactly what isn=E2=80=99t happening.
As you correctly noted, no one wants to waste their time for nothing.
I also don=E2=80=99t want to spend my time on a conversation with no result=
.

> I don=E2=80=99t know if you=E2=80=99re good with a camera, but going in a=
 podcast with someone like Brandt, Nuno Maduro or any other PHP podcast tha=
t tries to breakdown internals for easy consumption could also help your ca=
use.
No problem with the camera. But I cannot speak English fluently.

> A curse because nobody else seems to be able to understand what you=E2=80=
=99re saying, what you=E2=80=99re doing and what PHP will be like if your R=
FC is approved.
I have a small presentation that I prepared for TrueAsync, and I could
adapt it to the questions of this RFC.
But...
I know that the PHP community has specialists in asynchronous PHP who
are better than me.
All the experts from Swoole, Swow, AMPHP, React, and so on. That=E2=80=99s =
not
two or three developers.
In the previous discussion, Daniil Gentili wrote an amazingly professional =
post.

> I=E2=80=99m scared of bringing any async community tools to any project I=
 work because I don=E2=80=99t know what would break.
That was my first reaction several years ago.

> Your RFC states that you want all my code to keep working which is great,=
 but the moment I make use of something async it could inadvertently affect=
 something and I don=E2=80=99t know what/why/how.
> I=E2=80=99m dumb and don=E2=80=99t know how async works and I don=E2=80=
=99t want PHP to allow me to shoot myself in the head like that. Is there a=
nything you can do about it?
In that case it=E2=80=99s better to choose a programming language like Elix=
ir, Erlang.
PHP will not provide the required level of memory safety, although it
may be possible to add a special type of static variables to it.

> I wish you all the best luck on the RFC and your next steps. I thank you =
for all your time so far and I=E2=80=99m eager to see what come out of it.
Thank you.

--- Ed