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Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2025 17:32:25 -0300
Message-ID: <CADK1yXKUh84ayZQgwvUrJmGkP3-OBxDPSJNNK8+gWbr3vTG6sw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Namespace-Scoped Visibility for Methods and Properties
To: Rob Landers <rob@bottled.codes>
Cc: Faizan Akram Dar <hello@faizanakram.me>, PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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From: deleugyn@gmail.com (Deleu)

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On Sat, 8 Nov 2025 at 17:18 Rob Landers <rob@bottled.codes> wrote:

>
>
> Sidenote:
> When I proposed nested classes earlier this year, the conversation quickl=
y
> shifted into what "packages" or "modules" should mean for PHP, and that
> ended up becoming a much larger debate. I=E2=80=99d like to avoid pulling=
 that
> discussion into this RFC. It=E2=80=99s a related, but orthogonal topic an=
d could
> absolutely be explored in a *separate thread.*
>
> =E2=80=94 Rob
>

I understand the sentiment. I=E2=80=99ve participated in some of these deba=
tes. It
seems like reaching consensus is impossible because it=E2=80=99s not possib=
le for a
solution to be perfect and there=E2=80=99s no consensus in choosing the lea=
st worst
option.

Unfortunately, namespace visibility, nested classes, class friendship and
even some long debated performance optimizations which may or may not allow
linking symbols and may or may not help Generics all sit around on finding
a way to go from namespaces to packages.

This alternative, to me, seems more likely to make things worse rather than
better and I really hope PHP can figure out a package system.

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<div dir=3D"auto">On Sat, 8 Nov 2025 at 17:18 Rob Landers &lt;rob@bottled.c=
odes&gt; wrote:<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_=
quote_container"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;bo=
rder-left-color:rgb(204,204,204)"><u></u><div><div><br></div><div><br></div=
><div dir=3D"auto">Sidenote:<br></div><div>When I proposed nested classes e=
arlier this year, the conversation quickly shifted into what &quot;packages=
&quot; or &quot;modules&quot; should mean for PHP, and that ended up becomi=
ng a much larger debate. I=E2=80=99d like to avoid pulling that discussion =
into this RFC. It=E2=80=99s a related, but orthogonal topic and could absol=
utely be explored in a=C2=A0<i>separate thread.</i></div><div><br></div><di=
v dir=3D"auto">=E2=80=94 Rob</div></div></blockquote><div dir=3D"auto"><br>=
</div><div dir=3D"auto">I understand the sentiment. I=E2=80=99ve participat=
ed in some of these debates. It seems like reaching consensus is impossible=
 because it=E2=80=99s not possible for a solution to be perfect and there=
=E2=80=99s no consensus in choosing the least worst option.</div><div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Unfortunately, namespace visibility, =
nested classes, class friendship and even some long debated performance opt=
imizations which may or may not allow linking symbols and may or may not he=
lp Generics all sit around on finding a way to go from namespaces to packag=
es.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">This alternative, to=
 me, seems more likely to make things worse rather than better and I really=
 hope PHP can figure out a package system.</div></div></div>

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