Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:128884
Message-ID: <3CF9616C-AD20-42C5-A16A-AB9089B8F79F@TROWSKI.COM>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="Apple-Mail=_B0526B09-AC47-4314-8143-4FB400AF5B65"
Precedence: list
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81\))
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP True Async RFC Stage 4
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2025 10:10:46 -0500
In-Reply-To: <CAMW7n8AgHnO0rBjqBkHNhfvV5PBNxwgHBJ762N3FtVxoh5WnOQ@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: Rob Landers <rob@bottled.codes>,
 PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
To: Edmond Dantes <edmond.ht@gmail.com>
References: <CAMW7n8DGbFnQzjt3s9CcOBwhp+MUOV+K3U=yY=ULOTdUXaOLHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <0e4e39d6-9cc9-4970-92e0-2463143b4011@app.fastmail.com>
 <CAMW7n8AgHnO0rBjqBkHNhfvV5PBNxwgHBJ762N3FtVxoh5WnOQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: AARON@TROWSKI.COM (Aaron Piotrowski)


--Apple-Mail=_B0526B09-AC47-4314-8143-4FB400AF5B65
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=utf-8


> On Oct 21, 2025, at 9:56=E2=80=AFAM, Edmond Dantes =
<edmond.ht@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
>> This seems a bit contradictory and confuses things. When I await(), =
do I need to do it in a loop, or just once?
>> It might be a good idea to make a couple subtypes: Signal and Future. =
Coroutines become Future that only await once, while Signal is something =
that can be awaited many times.
>=20
> I made a mistake in my previous response, and it requires =
clarification.
> Classes that can be awaited multiple times are indeed possible.
> These include `TimeInterval`, `Channel`, `FileSystemEvent`, as well as
> I/O triggers.
>=20
> All of these classes can be `Awaitable`.
> This is done to allow bulk waiting on objects, regardless of how they
> work internally.
> So this is meant for functions like `awaitXX`, although such behavior
> is also possible for the `await()` function itself:
>=20
> ```php
> $timeInterval =3D new Async\TimeInterval(1000);
> while(true) {
>    await($timeInterval);
> }
> ```
>=20
> As for objects of type `Future`, it=E2=80=99s clear that in future =
RFCs there
> will be a `FutureInterface`, which will be implemented by coroutines.

Hi Edmond,

I've been meaning to review your RFC and implementation for some time, =
but for various reasons, I still haven't been able to give it a thorough =
read and review.

I noticed this portion of the discussion and wanted to drop a note now, =
rather than waiting until I was able to read the entire RFC.

Awaitables should always represent a single value. Awaiting multiple =
times should never result in a different value.

Async sets of values should use a different abstraction to represent a =
set. rxjs Observables (rxjs.dev) are on example. AMPHP has a pipeline =
library, https://github.com/amphp/pipeline, which defines a =
ConcurrentIterator interface. The latter IMO is more appropriate for PHP =
+ fibers. I recommend having a look at how Future and ConcurrentIterator =
are used within AMPHP libraries.

I think you should consider additional time beyond only two more weeks =
for discussion of this RFC before bringing it to a vote. PHP 8.6 or 9 is =
some time away. This is definitely not an RFC to rush to voting.

Cheers,
Aaron Piotrowski=

--Apple-Mail=_B0526B09-AC47-4314-8143-4FB400AF5B65
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><meta =
http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><div =
style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
line-break: after-white-space;"><br><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On=
 Oct 21, 2025, at 9:56=E2=80=AFAM, Edmond Dantes =
&lt;edmond.ht@gmail.com&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div><blockquote =
type=3D"cite">This seems a bit contradictory and confuses things. When I =
await(), do I need to do it in a loop, or just once?<br>It might be a =
good idea to make a couple subtypes: Signal and Future. Coroutines =
become Future that only await once, while Signal is something that can =
be awaited many times.<br></blockquote><br>I made a mistake in my =
previous response, and it requires clarification.<br>Classes that can be =
awaited multiple times are indeed possible.<br>These include =
`TimeInterval`, `Channel`, `FileSystemEvent`, as well as<br>I/O =
triggers.<br><br>All of these classes can be `Awaitable`.<br>This is =
done to allow bulk waiting on objects, regardless of how they<br>work =
internally.<br>So this is meant for functions like `awaitXX`, although =
such behavior<br>is also possible for the `await()` function =
itself:<br><br>```php<br>$timeInterval =3D new =
Async\TimeInterval(1000);<br>while(true) {<br> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;await($timeInterval);<br>}<br>```<br><br>As for =
objects of type `Future`, it=E2=80=99s clear that in future RFCs =
there<br>will be a `FutureInterface`, which will be implemented by =
coroutines.<br></div></div></blockquote></div><br><div>Hi =
Edmond,</div><div><br></div><div>I've been meaning to review your RFC =
and implementation for some time, but for various reasons, I still =
haven't been able to give it a thorough read and =
review.</div><div><br></div><div>I noticed this portion of the =
discussion and wanted to drop a note now, rather than waiting until I =
was able to read the entire RFC.</div><div><br></div><div>Awaitables =
should always represent a single value. Awaiting multiple times should =
never result in a different value.</div><div><br></div><div>Async sets =
of values should use a different abstraction to represent a set. rxjs =
Observables (rxjs.dev) are on example. AMPHP has a pipeline library, <a =
href=3D"https://github.com/amphp/pipeline">https://github.com/amphp/pipeli=
ne</a>, which defines a ConcurrentIterator interface. The latter IMO is =
more appropriate for PHP + fibers. I recommend having a look at how =
Future and ConcurrentIterator are used within AMPHP =
libraries.</div><div><br></div><div>I think you should consider =
additional time beyond only two more weeks for discussion of this RFC =
before bringing it to a vote. PHP 8.6 or 9 is some time away. This is =
definitely not an RFC to rush to =
voting.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Aaron =
Piotrowski</div></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_B0526B09-AC47-4314-8143-4FB400AF5B65--