Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:128810 X-Original-To: internals@lists.php.net Delivered-To: internals@lists.php.net Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (php-smtp4.php.net [45.112.84.5]) by lists.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 51D921A00BC for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2025 12:58:15 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=php.net; s=mail; t=1760101099; bh=gfLNKXZgxOLQPLPkRRYUTSCNIEUj8UTUITAYt4ClaGY=; h=References:In-Reply-To:From:Date:Subject:To:Cc:From; b=MDiWaSiFqPt9yN1Ull89iTP4CLlvvh4TaDUcK3xx6x9BzY1BsKdCBeSESL+IayebL sBk4qPTVz8m9aKmhXJk1Xu7Lkr8nmDUBXxpnemSFQML3p2jl/K0ePSa4+UetObJCkh 1MJaBIAK9Ddb6joSfnNdF6cv8fw0CieI0ofVLFiOdoMyDq0jz6dv7USFgiNediUPAY LdFfV7veiXMR8rt5R1hiuDHECzCQcYTXSkO8rfE0GtMBiqFrj9OnfzhJAGjKXi0BP8 sfAzmXJKBjtxv9frChUivJI+NfP0Tk9TEh09XcMkUAcezXyn40ZvSPPateDwuec81P ZbuA4RTBFwejA== Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3F5D180083 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2025 12:58:18 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.1 (2024-03-25) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_40,DMARC_NONE, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN,FREEMAIL_FROM,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS, HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL, SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=4.0.1 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: Received: from mail-oo1-f41.google.com (mail-oo1-f41.google.com [209.85.161.41]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2025 12:58:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oo1-f41.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-649d35ae18dso982785eaf.1 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2025 05:58:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1760101093; x=1760705893; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=gfLNKXZgxOLQPLPkRRYUTSCNIEUj8UTUITAYt4ClaGY=; b=bfXf8Em4igUjEqo1uyaScUVo3ApLpu5LENU8apu5LwCnTuYiq2BRjvRdjImtV7lf45 a6/p+anOUIxNHEo3bpBudjH/sxVhANlEWAJ6TdJX87jU3D8E8UIcNsxSjBotQxbEE3u6 pamkNfs7FXamxHfirHHDe45MTUL8VjS6AjjnRICWuFWf91bDuXpgpHZJarGYQ5coxZzo YbEiO7pFt3HLCiBfKi3zeiyCJg+l0F8PbfL7qCEEYLkBu/I2bIpuHRq4q0NHQMxQghFc +KefpyNo6IOe7Igx0TdgBAfjo3HpwoNV68e8XOf31zmpWZvkbWWZg0llG1peEXZpKeYv QGpw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxN5YIlnMxTPf82Wq/wJE3dPbQ4auBYdUDme0qVmHC6UI8EdK34 e9Ofi9uSzo7ODKwNek8v58uoCp6A8QaQDtt9COX9GwM4fMeJmXC4ChDhw4PfDhR8nNx0qiyTymg 2yOdAws3kpvyk67ryxSoxQI290Bm5tcs= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvSB1YVEOEl8ihX1FKTG6Qzk2yoj07PNRbxPsE7O6xoL55LNab6F8qX9ku2cEn 22Pdimlm5pfDgkUl8beKVifUuIP+ThKTltzdc7pot55bao0NIzhrmnN5n3yRoC4GdiTbztQD4As rhkGTiy3Vvs7A/EC7B52+M9opAqttnpPDraZ6yxkMcFDAnvZ6E3hooPbmuTgr7SHivS10y8ZukN cPNNMy6qoYg6u5LHPU1jtDB4Rjm7WNcID3Y X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IH7/LbaYWWARdgLF7xgRC9OxxRF12TfhDZUj4NclA1NVKC8AkdNe85RaoczUv6LeNy5AaUIQVNO6ZiUc37Flio= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6871:4f0b:b0:375:94a0:1663 with SMTP id 586e51a60fabf-3c0f5f08b74mr4478039fac.6.1760101092796; Fri, 10 Oct 2025 05:58:12 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: list list-help: list-post: List-Id: x-ms-reactions: disallow MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2025 14:58:01 +0200 X-Gm-Features: AS18NWAtsP-7ySdIgimMfx_4OYua3O4GJra_RUyfm_5vZHQbPd1QPTrHj4SPyBY Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] Deprecate PEAR and recommend Composer To: Brent Roose Cc: PHP Internals List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000067ad340640cd78da" From: bukka@php.net (Jakub Zelenka) --00000000000067ad340640cd78da Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 2:44=E2=80=AFPM Brent Roose wrote: > The only thing related to PHP/internals is the fact PEAR is bundled with >> PHP and that the PEAR website is a subdomain pear.php.net. >> > > In my opinion, this is sufficient reason to have an RFC for it. A quick > search through the RFCs showed a handful of website-related ones: > > - https://wiki.php.net/rfc/deprecate-pear-include-composer > - https://wiki.php.net/rfc/global_login > - https://wiki.php.net/rfc/phpnet-analytics > > Then there's the fact that Pear comes bundled with PHP, even more of an > argument that internals have at least something to say about it. Several > RFCs have addressed bundling/unbundling third party plugins before. Again= , > a quick search: > > - https://wiki.php.net/rfc/unbundle_imap_pspell_oci8 > - https://wiki.php.net/rfc/unbundle_xmlprc > - https://wiki.php.net/rfc/deprecate-and-remove-ext-wddx > - https://wiki.php.net/rfc/unbundle_recode > > To me, and I believe to a significant part of the PHP community, what's > most important is for PHP to acknowledge that composer is its de-facto > standard package manager. This doesn't mean composer cannot operate > independently anymore, but an endorsement would make a lot of sense. > Removing PEAR/PECL from php-src is absolutely fine and such RFC should be done. As I mentioned, we could also discuss removal from the php.net domain (move it to the separate domain from pear.php.net). That's what we control and can do. But that is not what was proposed in this RFC. It was proposing deprecating PEAR site and the tool which is quite different. Because this is maintained outside PHP GitHub organization: https://github.com/pear and from what I understand even the servers hosting the website are not maintained by us. But this is just my understanding and maybe I'm missing something and that's why I asked for people with access to comment here because without them, such RFC is pointless. Kind regards, Jakub --00000000000067ad340640cd78da Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

On Fri, Oct 10, 2= 025 at 2:44=E2=80=AFPM Brent Roose <brent.roose@jetbrains.com> wrote:
The only thing related t= o PHP/internals is the fact PEAR is bundled with PHP and that the PEAR webs= ite is a subdomain=C2=A0= pear.php.net.

In my opinio= n, this is sufficient reason to have an RFC for it.=C2=A0A quick search thr= ough the RFCs showed a handful of website-related ones:


T= hen there's the fact that Pear comes bundled with PHP, even more of an = argument that internals have at least something to say about it. Several RF= Cs have addressed bundling/unbundling third party plugins before. Again, a = quick search:


To me, and I believe to a significant par= t of the PHP community, what's most important is for PHP to acknowledge= that composer is its de-facto standard package manager. This doesn't m= ean composer cannot operate independently anymore, but an endorsement would= make a lot of sense.

Removing PEAR/PECL from php-src is absolutely fine and such RFC should b= e done. As I mentioned, we could also discuss removal from the php.net domain (move it to the separate domain from pear.php.net). That's what we control a= nd can do.

But that is not what was proposed in th= is RFC. It was proposing deprecating PEAR site and the tool which is quite = different. Because this is maintained outside PHP GitHub organization:=C2= =A0https://github.com/pear and from= what I understand even the servers hosting the website are not maintained = by us. But this is just my understanding and maybe I'm missing somethin= g and that's why I asked for people with access to comment here because= without them, such RFC is pointless.

Kind regards= ,

Jakub
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