Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:128793
Feedback-ID: i8414410d:Fastmail
Precedence: list
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2025 14:18:55 -0500
To: "php internals" <internals@lists.php.net>
Message-ID: <c2aa62a2-da4b-4caa-99b3-e286ca5ced76@app.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: 
 <CAMW7n8BWvf-bE6g7A_0vDW1Lf8hhTm-zuyNEY23DA0biNS-YSA@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
 <CAMW7n8DGbFnQzjt3s9CcOBwhp+MUOV+K3U=yY=ULOTdUXaOLHQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADuktwNP+t-DJbLCsnHHhztZYmOMGYde9rzNm+9B0SUsrNvV-g@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMW7n8BTb1OHdLsjD+fPyeGOkYSQx-KXMrLnG-4rVUSq2646+Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <14f591d4-aa1e-49dc-bc20-03cb493dc20c@app.fastmail.com>
 <CAMW7n8C6vSxSEiA=5zntf4Yu9H1yPE+LrG_SZns7YA1Lxim1oA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CADK1yX+0+Nu9Srqe0CYmDmFWfxRoVrDy=bDnHg6YTmNTwKKtnA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAMW7n8BWvf-bE6g7A_0vDW1Lf8hhTm-zuyNEY23DA0biNS-YSA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP True Async RFC Stage 4
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
From: larry@garfieldtech.com ("Larry Garfield")

On Mon, Oct 6, 2025, at 1:50 PM, Edmond Dantes wrote:

> Of course, you might say that there are simple websites for which FPM
> is sufficient. But over the last two years, even for simple sites,
> there=E2=80=99s TypeScript =E2=80=94 and although its ecosystem may be=
 weaker, the
> language may be more complex for some people, and its performance
> slightly worse =E2=80=94 it comes with async, WebSockets, and a single
> language for both frontend and backend out of the box (a killer
> feature). And this trend is only going to grow stronger.
>
> Commercial development of mid-sized projects is the only niche that
> cannot be lost. These guys need Event-Driven architecture, telemetry,
> services. And they ask the question: why choose a language that
> doesn=E2=80=99t support modern technologies. Async is needed specifica=
lly for
> those technologies, not for FPM.

We must have a different definition of mid-sized, because FPM has been u=
sed for numerous mission critical large sites, like government and unive=
rsity sites, and has been fine.  And such sites still benefit from faste=
r telemetry, logging, etc.

Regardless, we can quibble about the percentages and what people "should=
" do; those are all subjective debates.

The core point is this: Any async approach in core needs to treat the FP=
M use case as a first-class citizen, which works the same way, just as r=
eliably, as it would in a persistent CLI command.  That is not negotiabl=
e.

If for no other reason than avoiding splitting the ecosystem into async/=
CLI and sync/FPM libraries, which would be an absolute disaster.

--Larry Garfield