Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:128458 X-Original-To: internals@lists.php.net Delivered-To: internals@lists.php.net Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (php-smtp4.php.net [45.112.84.5]) by lists.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 086331A00BC for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2025 10:44:39 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=php.net; s=mail; t=1755081781; bh=hECu/6QYa4fKRtcj5KjoItyw2B1zZyuBLupCwTD08/E=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=TrY6Lw/EIaxJ3m7vbDCJG56Dm8qIyTaKgwcE1eBNNhskQbukJjgHcilmXugxSQN4N DQDIwPmtnQC0eBY6XZ1CmSHBd2TKAnhzNLG9gf5NRWrQSYQC4LAX6tvoOW7k+yPiQj IIFq5n7BqY6mX8J5Uf0F56phC6APTGMZF1IDSQsryppYR3rv9Ky2Apx9CacHfvcW2I NkF1RXFiTWPR/dSq6svsdkRMNRYCmtyllq6XF0/VVQ1e7AmOA2dl+hPCCXxXi1t72Y dzMA2g43cnc0fbHhoT3hzgEMqqv8MzvcZ2Iw+XUMtVh4uu7+dUU1agIDIfQjIpxjhb Bl+WS+gxUr8Ug== Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 964FC18005C for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2025 10:43:00 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.1 (2024-03-25) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,DMARC_PASS, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT,FREEMAIL_FROM,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=4.0.1 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (prime256v1) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Wed, 13 Aug 2025 10:42:59 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1755081875; x=1755686675; i=cmbecker69@gmx.de; bh=eoUNRh16W3NHZbqR6YYtwIdDF341dt0wYYN+lXijEFY=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc: References:From:In-Reply-To:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:cc:content-transfer-encoding: content-type:date:from:message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject: to; b=pKbIBDQHj9mFwnRAkiMdXUIf/5W70tA0tbcIMUtVoz3vTc4Pnb/aq8mFsa3JKDIf DODkJYYvn+Or4AlJ0fNOiBbfAwjOZPdTliUtGfp/146ji+kmWKJxSDcpRcrfTxqKr /CsVVRJsLCpYVi62NK8KCf8YXsvl89tB/hATWZLsfrVobSoIkrkJs7RyMR+K5oLiF JJUCMhkCTJZAPN+RhgqLiJmWabqfudRHYgMeuQYhW3PQoJRrEvSMJFYYFkCdgAQ1E FMo9zo+B79zdBmUFVh+f0RIe35uBh5oUPHC6ZuNF/9B+boIwWs8bJhMMq6bT/45aH UPyD4p9bbpCb7wZ74A== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from [192.168.2.198] ([79.220.75.163]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MdvmO-1uCWyD3P54-00ZZd2; Wed, 13 Aug 2025 12:44:35 +0200 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2025 12:44:37 +0200 Precedence: list list-help: list-post: List-Id: x-ms-reactions: disallow MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecations for PHP 8.5 To: Nicolas Grekas , "Gina P. Banyard" Cc: PHP internals References: Content-Language: de-DE In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:UBFTtxTPm/ZJ40FTZ4OvMiq18BaIYQeWRqPOiNvBYdQ1lBJiuZs urKNIICwp4JLaD0vSoXXdPnOx1umYTmN89OuJ+Oe4PNvnIZN1XVxX2fQ7L7UZIAuKsQqbHF soalyj1YUVmXBMEeq55ttaxaA7CewJsq2QfNcrmWX3mIxEZe1t+DBXW/o/llVSRtKO1UHLO vGkfvGehoknXTFzpjXwPA== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:ndLNxRFoXwg=;wsieHAqrpgRi5m4JDvb6kpWHHJL 5G5LvAp9RXsQey2Eb14KIScvoGi0l80VsR4UE3thONiYUt/t/fez7omTjC4rACFzBZ7ZIO2jX IL/TDsFDF95z06HINNUTNhn4jnnn/hExlrrPyUN6uZ0p31qRoPOH0fKtIwlhGjTxW5RjcPboB LpEP/n9ANG0viMvbmTWUd3ET4wq/lYyW/XOSjSdScfCNNFKzT/88e9129Z5R6EZJDhfTNRJlz sPt/UF6md9d6UloY5SkLY6jXOixkQk2p5zXQAulpmcyeRA66XA8I+/CWOPsFYi5FuZTj4rwyW ijkaeNF4LXE0pXzOeKSH6UmtVtaEIj+KwsEt/xft7NSXWk8PjoKd5iyFjBMeFpJyJQBxSP9eG uioW46wsKO8UNeorE79TKU/ytLctaxe3L2XHwmcu7Z9/VAV1fpqXDU+Eizi2NsWvpeNxY164X xmiaSGQkfu++BNJ9RMFjTeIcD4MNB8kAW+0CQTwN4ru3GA7ijUs+jHSWVOU3Nfq0mAMJjUbvN knR5vz6A+DzeamoZKTklvF3Zd1+OOjeT6T7ik/7doW5j/ZqpGlVzNcD79Bi0K3Zii/qlAwdJ8 WHTBqN4nFVNxeo27lO2DBJ1EFqyE1DKBdyLHlJK2MO8+x1y7WpMHZgvYB5Ln338ISkk6fOkYD jyCNhRiJlkRQVIwIJ8sqGA8Hlbdd8/WNbaP2p978kxIoqch+MeGMQLyVRAzVoFqmzvg684vPM oxVsQXGIEeb9WO4LzLwsOCEaTiHkFMdYYWq21xrixIvZsld1XzwDYp82unmIT31yPX3sCXg12 cpXj+WeOrwF/2aXZ189gLLPPvEuw2Hc0fjt8qbOS/HhFg5XCauGmmrWKjsvb0B/UVcEDRs4R7 LNm2bsj8Qzhf2oNJZv1lE4QUqYZW/jgBvDimSGA6ub61NAuohRj8akTD3pXBsu2F151U3YpiH NuhIBg7B/G8iTD39zE5Sudw0SF5wVZ9maxlOoV8KcY9vadr8milSd8FwJsqmq2kC+bVi1MkYz CNXBIbPGxcqmsSV9I6L959swWM9qR5o1mhZ8OSeI0uw+GMTngAY0oWNvTlB1WZwfhGEhLP/tY 88/7t3KsXLDJFwTOQrOnVU969D+Zfi8DDhLbIZNPeN8DPXXeIAmkxbYlMQQASIdOlH1fvWFOl iZSiFBuHyBuFm4RKMSqYLjhKnfrfmAiqtxy8qQ702HHn9HXxThvICL0q8ycyX1w3kja7URhJ2 r7wv6ua+pBqrrUwyFhaLW99S+IgFmBruvq7BIX/FkSurMoY+j7gjkvb1Vl5XgZo0LKp4Rmw3M q5l41ht6CGwC/FyYRiWWWtfjNjp9o/e7HJ/hl/4EGVoi/7XyAtmU4GUPRJOasMibCzsnorqZi C1x7TpPCdSYzBNNxMrEXjMqKVv20xFXWvUaZAOG9QlctcXQjp0wwgiIAMU/A92KSO62a1gH2T SHnMo5dLBvOq2sEXlL6c6QIf26drDe2UCyNLybJqOj86zI6RihFP6rZOeV4Wl3c+acChW0rmB g3WQEwt0q2pTBR3RAiE/AUiBQrYK7JwHnjgnLessNwWFHzEtAJTCRkrn370WUS42vttIUcvsI WAkr43AlOqxkWtMi2cZXqhHjiwSsAhKGkUQMZZGPc8z43uB80Mb1huK+Usm2iNbJLkQF84KUN J1JG4AMCH92/DuwuChTkU5EFNH5SJaUVLTzrptCwsIJ1fZF+OpH9CsLzmOYQcFsAsAtOGHbu+ Me9XS5CPrWi4N9yZszZVwnkEOivSsobOIHE3dqzT2R4BHp8H5ucSWGj1GH38pqhVdyKT1gN+G vtGavPlbRWBHvHWWyesRxeuw3xEU7TEhcWx41JFIVZ4bPNH0rC1hbhHi4p4SIDyrVkHxSVNQ6 8GWlNxj0qkN3cR7EJm14FBZEAR2RACGIqE09ik0cQkW1YYxPLbmYlfLHlxb9Hhn+KfdGP2ucx bB34Snz7h8MkGL6djSdVd8Orll5+xkdVZpR/YZfJCc8fuqaQYKI3luPKqZ1FEelidcnxPZ7o8 XLQLew6tVl7pmPUDS9vd8J794kLoWUfrouA2hHgvc/M3lT4G0i4SUqhlnwYBTrcrP7si9Lguo xmgGPiC/WCKpJ/9vm/nv8py/a+qWdSAINxzRaRcI6xJI0Y0WrCtjpcFtlQLORBmJn1OkDTeQI GzO+ZU6zrjjvKwAiDhq+0/BWczyTERRgrxadoq1WPyVDNiu8kybv0nB6M6g2tRa6uEFhLGi2U 0yT0/mqLHFRn6L83F1PN5FZJVd//t2GRY+LfrifYTN6wqcLpFKXG9KTNVlHMn+tXSHiFIuMjk d7gB4T3VvV8jEDlXmGRVSepBWPk5BpiWyI/NC6IEHEOQiKi+0S3gVOWYOSoeMkQzDPHuQytFz GbHrkxVlQ5XEBDe0u/iEov2I5WPdoEJ+lBC6SVoT34wM66UFsEfxRUdCibSsGdPj99fisdeUc I0RIoRs6r9yfZVLpat4zGWrGKCyL50Hy1Ziu/RfBai6vGPJ5eYNIF9oS3OBHKp7d0LoTWVCis zPfrIx4hQwRbPIUbpgBzjiWnufInieNJVpT/YoLfvacXYSlbfQ2Q44B8RJbQU9auQ7i+IvbTH ZvqnY4cYJhslIrtn7rrlocHVkmKVmlx2G9QunQJOr3LXDD1a8DbqvsnBQwI74rpM25KldCPqT HgJKjUAQ2EdHmvJl3kzeaXnXO4nvzUq1rHB0Dzmeu9d0jnzEuppsuqZK6/BuUhwuT8nLGiChW m04a97SZRBoQ7UUNh6wo+AVlFRSdddj4BRTCDXDAGY3yCPFT5uiF0llIN2BUUNajmaQ7eccud 1+SAQacckoS2e1Y9dkDrWdd+bYKb8BCkARIeYIH8FhQwNUtIHNfdjECe/XzuBz7Gie9TthkbM 0xnlRYlpoCI3DQImwo12sNn3SDpgGK3h6lKrs6QzDTRUELRspX7DHIPuIzIYKI6iyLeJ5+/VA zLZtzfvoKtc+bHhPOOaSl8JhgfgnJHmbXx5htzCA3RNl1tqe40/+uzhp/b5dY0I21r+GJxQUc 8041MhfehniTkJDL611+SkHujKs1lq8FJG+3Ud6Mb3Ut5M6UmnuTn4SR781xZBSXsGK9nnVLQ 9dFTtaEEyb+0OZDzOaKsVdWi3rojM5yt8H5NaWdz0dbAmkAzIGZXYwomMAgvsNeBiytWV78rA uJdYLc+87MgSODYp9jGXb4ONS+6A/xTJ5W1Gs9e3hGHLDrasT6FV1RvhajbseSZP/YFG7TroJ Sdi+7hoiroBcecPCZfNCZWW9CNaUOB5PstXy2+Np4bp1EbUMFa6mLZ6lwtKwZIlmpHvINR6Ef 1tA6hBvWkZ6MQj+AX2p/SIacJR0/htgktWEQu5VJJriKB2Ge7I56NPY1+0nV8OebuffXwuYX2 dg1+Y1Nj3TOpIXcKjJW/6xgYcHGxKMSLy7j1ire/oxjpCb8jUEViYg7pFMrxANKxe/gJ35+JZ 3DCihDvez5w== From: cmbecker69@gmx.de ("Christoph M. Becker") On 13.08.2025 at 11:00, Nicolas Grekas wrote: > Le ven. 8 ao=C3=BBt 2025 =C3=A0 22:10, Gina P. Banyard a =C3=A9crit : >=20 >> The following proposals have been accepted: >> >> - Deprecate the __sleep() and __wakeup() magic methods (18 yay, 9 nay, >> 66.7%) >=20 > I=E2=80=99d like to raise some concerns about the decision to deprecate = __sleep() > and __wakeup(). >=20 > While I understand the intention behind moving toward __serialize() and > __unserialize(), in practice the migration path is often non-trivial. Fo= r > example, in Symfony=E2=80=99s codebase there are numerous cases where sw= itching > requires deep knowledge of PHP=E2=80=99s serialization format to maintai= n > compatibility with existing payloads. This is essential so that updated > applications can still communicate with older versions. >=20 > For many projects, this will be a significant burden, especially given t= hat > __sleep() and __wakeup() have historically worked well for these use cas= es. > I=E2=80=99m concerned that the practical cost to the community may outwe= igh the > benefits, particularly since the rationale for removal seems, at least f= rom > a user=E2=80=99s perspective, debatable. >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t know if there is room to reconsider the deprecation, but= I wanted > to share this perspective from the field. Frankly, I do not quite understand why it has even been suggested (so early) to deprecate __sleep()/__wakeup(). Even the New custom object serialization mechanism RFC[1] acknowledged that this mechanism is *not* fundamentally broken, but only somewhat limited, and that: | There is no particular pressing need to phase out __sleep() and | __wakeup(). However, I'm afraid that ship has sailed. [1] Christoph