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Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2025 17:15:11 +0000
To: =?utf-8?Q?Tim_D=C3=BCsterhus?= <tim@bastelstu.be>
Cc: PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Warnings for PHP 8.5
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From: internals@gpb.moe ("Gina P. Banyard")

On Monday, 28 July 2025 at 16:22, Tim D=C3=BCsterhus <tim@bastelstu.be> wro=
te:

> Am 2025-07-28 16:23, schrieb Gina P. Banyard:
>=20
> > As I am aware it is in bad taste to shove something new into such a
> > proposal minutes before starting the vote,
> > I'll postpone the vote for a few hours so that at least some people
> > can see and raise objections.
>=20
>=20
> For visibility: I object. See sibling email.

Said sibling email:

On Monday, 28 July 2025 at 15:31, Tim D=C3=BCsterhus <tim@bastelstu.be> wro=
te:
> Am 2025-07-28 16:20, schrieb Gina P. Banyard:
>=20
> > I've added a whole new section that addresses this, as out of range
> > casts are completely whack.
> > See:
> > https://wiki.php.net/rfc/warnings-php-8-5#casting_out_of_range_floats_t=
o_int
>=20
>=20
> This effectively is another =E2=80=9CPrimary Vote=E2=80=9D for an entirel=
y new proposal
> and as such requires 2 weeks of discussion. If you want to vote on this
> RFC for PHP 8.5, you'll need to drop that section again.
>=20
> Best regards
> Tim D=C3=BCsterhus

I am going to bring the RFC in its totality to a vote later today.
You can consider this a new primary vote, vote no, and even argue for this =
part of the RFC to be rendered void regardless of the result.
Or just incentivize people to vote no, so you don't even need to deal with =
this.

Claude raised the edge case 2 days ago, and I found the extent of it to be =
even larger than expected.
I thought that it would be better to create a whole new section rather than=
 twisting the existing "NAN" warning proposal to fit the new constraints,
but apparently I should have done this instead and changed all instances of=
 "NAN" to "non-representable floats".

I find it increasingly frustrating that trying to make PHP not be completel=
y insane is met with resistance at every turn,
and I'm once more at the stage that I really should stop wasting my time an=
d caring about PHP and do something better with my life.
Using "process violations" to prevent PHP from being less shit when an addi=
tional edge case of a proposal is found, for IDK 5 additional years impacti=
ng countless developers, old and new, is something that I find infuriating.
And I guess this truly showcases how broken and infuriating our RFC process=
 can be, especially around feature freeze.

Moreover, if we are going to do legalese, the only thing our policy actual =
states are the following: [1]

> There'd be a minimum of 2 weeks between when an RFC that touches the lang=
uage is brought up on this list and when it's voted on is required. [...]

> For procedural reasons, multiple RFCs may be combined into one, in which =
case there may be multiple primary votes.
> Combining multiple RFCs into one does not allow turning a primary vote in=
to a secondary vote.

There is no mention of the content of an RFC needing to be "identical" for =
2 weeks.
Thus, I can, and seemingly I really should have, edited the "NAN" proposal =
(or any of the other ones) to include this and then make it a secondary vot=
e "should this be extended to non-representable floats or not".
Therefore, if there is even more push back, I will proceed that way, so the=
 grouping only has 4 "main proposals" rather than 5.

Sincerely,

Gina P. Banyard

[1] https://github.com/php/policies/blob/main/feature-proposals.rst