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Mon, 28 Jul 2025 05:42:48 -0700 (PDT) Precedence: bulk list-help: list-post: List-Id: internals.lists.php.net x-ms-reactions: disallow MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <73a35675dff31a1eaf76b67af567194e@bastelstu.be> In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2025 15:42:32 +0300 X-Gm-Features: Ac12FXwjKoTEaUp5ol5dzZIVUj4prEvHmwk5jO9mABRoAPDgwtqHyMEKdtidzqE Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [DISCUSSION] User-land Throwable Cc: PHP internals Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000d09d0063afca1ff" From: raveren@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Rokas_=C5=A0leinius?=) --0000000000000d09d0063afca1ff Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 at 15:16, Lynn wrote: > > > On Mon, Jul 28, 2025 at 1:50=E2=80=AFPM Rokas =C5=A0leinius wrote: > >> >> On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 at 13:56, Tim D=C3=BCsterhus wrot= e: >> >>> Hi >>> >>> Am 2025-07-28 11:41, schrieb Dmitry Derepko: >>> > A few years ago I found that a library printed error traces wrong. >>> > After a little research I found that there was a mix of 3rd party >>> > integration error + raised error around the current bridge >>> > implementation >>> > (http client). >>> > >>> > There were several PHP applications with microservices architecture >>> > which I >>> > had access to (docker + sources). >>> > >>> > So having the message and traces I'd like to have an error chain as i= t >>> > can >>> > be done chaining several errors through a new Exception(previous: $e)= . >>> > But PHP does not allow you to manually implement Throwable. Instead y= ou >>> > should extend Exception. But after that you still cannot override the >>> > getTrace() method because it's final. >>> > >>> > So my proposal is pretty simple: Remove both restrictions. >>> >>> I'm afraid I don't quite understand what actual goal you intend to solv= e >>> with the proposal. The description of your use case is very abstract, >>> can you provide a real-world example of a use-case you want to enable? >>> >>> Best regards >>> Tim D=C3=BCsterhus >>> >> >> | real-world example of a use-case you want to enable >> >> Say I am implementing a job runner, I do its error handling, and I want >> to enrich the caught exception with additional helpful data for debuggin= g. >> In this process I create a custom exception MyJobHandlerException, but t= he >> trace of the new exception includes my handler code, which the end user >> does not care about. I wish to overwrite the trace of the new >> MyJobHandlerException instance with the trace from the originally caught >> exception, but I cannot. >> >> I was always sure that the reason behind all methods of \Exception being >> final is Larry-Garfield-blogpost length/depth so I never bothered to ask >> and made workarounds. >> > > If I understand you correctly; You rethrow the exception, wrapping it in = a > custom exception class, and you'd like to have a final/composed stacktrac= e > of all the exceptions? > > https://3v4l.org/m7HIQ#vnull > Yeah you guys come up with nice workarounds, I too, use a custom method on my exception class to get the "actually relevant" trace, but that's not compatible with the world at large, and previous() or not, you cannot plug in your own trace (which was processed for user convenience). Another example: what if I want to implement a userland job method `failed()`, where "the job system" would create a synthetic exception - but I want it to have the trace up to the actual line in "userland" code (where `failed()` was invoked) - and I don't want my "system" calls in the trace. Or another example: how Laravel handles ViewException - at one point the error handler builds a "fixed" trace where the compiled Blade files are replaced in the trace with the source `blade.php` files - as that is what is actually relevant to the user. I'm cloudy on the details of how exactly does it perform the switch to display the desired trace, but you can imagine it would be much nicer to have this code within the concern of the ViewException itself, but it can't be done now. --0000000000000d09d0063afca1ff Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, 28 Jul 2025 at 15:16, = Lynn <kjarli@gmail= .com> wrote:


On Mon, Jul 28, 2025 at 1:50=E2= =80=AFPM Rokas =C5=A0leinius <raveren@gmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jul 20= 25 at 13:56, Tim D=C3=BCsterhus <tim@bastelstu.be> wrote:
Hi

Am 2025-07-28 11:41, schrieb Dmitry Derepko:
> A few years ago I found that a library printed error traces wrong.
> After a little research I found that there was a mix of 3rd party
> integration error + raised error around the current bridge
> implementation
> (http client).
>
> There were several PHP applications with microservices architecture > which I
> had access to (docker + sources).
>
> So having the message and traces I'd like to have an error chain a= s it
> can
> be done chaining several errors through a new Exception(previous: $e).=
> But PHP does not allow you to manually implement Throwable. Instead yo= u
> should extend Exception. But after that you still cannot override the<= br> > getTrace() method because it's final.
>
> So my proposal is pretty simple: Remove both restrictions.

I'm afraid I don't quite understand what actual goal you intend to = solve
with the proposal. The description of your use case is very abstract,
can you provide a real-world example of a use-case you want to enable?

Best regards
Tim D=C3=BCsterhus

|=C2=A0real-world example of a use-case you want to ena= ble

Say I am implementing a job runner, I do its error handling, and I want to=20 enrich the caught exception with additional helpful data for debugging.=20 In this process I create a custom exception MyJobHandlerException, but=20 the trace of the new exception includes my handler code, which the end=20 user does not care about. I wish to overwrite the trace of the new=20 MyJobHandlerException instance with the trace from the originally caught exception, but I cannot.

I was always sure that the reason behind all methods of \Exception being=20 final is Larry-Garfield-blogpost length/depth so I never bothered to ask and made workarounds.

<= /div>
If I understand you correctly; You rethrow the exception, wrappin= g it in a custom exception class, and you'd like to have a final/compos= ed stacktrace of all the exceptions?


Yeah you guys com= e=C2=A0up with nice workarounds, I too, use a custom method on my exception= class to get the "actually relevant" trace,=C2=A0but that's = not compatible with the world at large,=C2=A0and previous() or not, you can= not plug in your own trace (which was processed for user convenience).

Anot= her example: what if I want to implement a userland job method `failed()`, = where "the job system" would create a synthetic exception - but I= want it to have the trace up to the actual line in "userland" co= de (where `failed()` was invoked) - and I don't want my "system&qu= ot; calls in the trace.=C2=A0

=
Or another example: how Laravel handles ViewE= xception - at one point the error handler builds a "fixed" trace = where the compiled Blade files are replaced in the trace with the source `b= lade.php` files - as that is what is actually relevant to the user.=C2=A0 I'm cloudy on the details of how exactly does it perform the switch to = display the desired trace, but you can imagine it would be much nicer to ha= ve this code within the concern of the ViewException itself, but it can'= ;t be done now.
--0000000000000d09d0063afca1ff--