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Mon, 21 Jul 2025 09:16:01 +0200 Message-ID: <9c120e75-0e05-4875-b79d-6ed789eb3666@mabe.berlin> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2025 09:16:00 +0200 Precedence: bulk list-help: list-post: List-Id: internals.lists.php.net x-ms-reactions: disallow MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: [PHP-DEV] Re: [RFC] Drop support for 32bit builds To: internals@lists.php.net References: Content-Language: en-US Autocrypt: addr=marc@mabe.berlin; keydata= xsBNBFby8roBCAD4qHjbk9+V3SmB5DfpkTtX58jYJ9VXVfF54MDoI0fQiYvKyrrghfO78alH c12RsEZxLH2F5kEfu8WO4wA4apg2gBnRRxqPj7krsct1ySOAdMrRVp8Wtaeaznpdcn2gJZyA MSI6LTzebT25N77ksvSrUi1BuCKyOa7SmYff3xGgOwYsHQlT5opMNGPCVegiPmO/K37anwts gj6L7RVtjXtp2Z3wAs6r3EmO318PL48xDLUgYMvEFAPJglth5FGH2En6n6HFIhxh43LqXQiN eHVjLjS2y8huNBswwc9ZVxk3ip5z/GCmpWnNkgGBOSJ7loJRsq2tOaU6yU8KWb5rhOoFABEB AAHNIU1hcmMgQmVubmV3aXR6IDxtYXJjQG1hYmUuYmVybGluPsLAeAQTAQIAIgUCVvLyugIb AwYLCQgHAwIGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQOTar91O8iM6jzggAwvV6MqU/hcAI6ldp xVjucGz2J9cAWtva8GL+rm9zvEs7EENtamehJiZob/CTw50WiI/zsJzPblktpT0D2AFBEp9k P5/8CmCpZzxYPsxnLtsFM52fOBpO+aP0PSStBpJjndjBH7HPqKcTCXM3ZM+SL6lyRweAJR7G +JXIZbuUrbjB2lbGx3itNZ6TeXqqnE6KTXNKLEbNHfVdzE4sPDkmuZRo/M2h+gmeS1iQb29W BmhvL6czugCQI9rYl7C4Nci9wPii1lTYyfCWQfQKID4/F2HiOv+N/vDMCK1xV8TUeCy8w4X+ nYj+wDog046ki9lUM60oPij6WoSJLqfsXr1kNc7ATQRW8vK6AQgAq7QYLB1Dz+8RSi5AGJP1 tOFQXtcxyOhNVQZsI1mCQiHay4wteQ+5m4EOUuR+FrFIlnbSrPdTkKD2wvQDHVqpZivThBpJ vara/ick0wi2R3dasu1sPMu1P6h1EwUsydhviNJB07aLfPAWD6eoqmGTd8236znIIq7mbnNp OnxIQxviTyELUekrNw38uQtVzR6XZv9PAThA2o1J1JZID7QUpKcNyo9ebYlwxyS+xzhA4DLD qfD6O5sKoKvxEf2fIZeP0ETPpHNYk0WiWnmNoPy8eEY07LriYALVidBwPBcxus0wGoKf8Nun y2aE13SHmj0ioBI1bXMGJx3hEbvzXK6WrwARAQABwsBfBBgBAgAJBQJW8vK6AhsMAAoJEDk2 q/dTvIjOkowIAI70P8U4j3eqyK/7x1bnCZZRcpwZ1aH+LR1yMKTINo9NDqlOBWQTLT69YMfV 4UN+nTSiD/uLw1fSeLSzBwpoalCMLPVOX/d3Mq5JtL5cKtWUTIVf3Vb7VbN4Rvb8HgWjeSnM 1PiG9yQBmLKI68sG/gdgvA/xANdUatkDgG0yj8PCdt+Vy4EblXbIAXZXJ6eRugSKowTjst7i HXKOJxivomHFcmqmkiqjwGTGx/jrhbDtEpPDRk+U9W45D4CbUcyPR6lMSrje5JPGQDv/45M5 wPe286YelBjnb0cWRJpA7GZCWDKZOsQ2H6cCRBi8i4m+vfRk7GLA536XnmvWxKFVP9U= In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; 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Hi everyone,

On 19.06.25 16:08, Marc Bennewitz wrote:
Hi,

During the discussion about the year 2038 issue it turned out that maybe it's time to drop support for 32-bit of PHP completely.

Based on that I have created an RFC to deprecate 32-bit build in 8.next and drop support for it in 9.

RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/drop_32bit_support=

I=E2=80=99m writing to let you know that I=E2=80=99ve decided not = to move forward with the RFC to drop 32-bit support - at least for now.

While there are clear problems= with continuing to support 32-bit PHP builds, such as:

  • additional complexity for = the language itself and for library maintainers

  • Y2038 problem due to 32-bi= t integers used for Unix timestamps

  • File size limitations

  • Memory usage limitations

  • Issues with functions like= crc32, ip2long, and long2ip returning negative values

there are still some valid use cases that currently don=E2=80=99t = have ready-to-use alternatives.

The most significant of these= identified is WebAssembly, which is actively used on for the PHP documentation and 3v4l.org. Although 64-bit WebAssembly support is nearly available in all major browsers, it=E2=80=99s still relative= ly new and not yet fully supported everywhere (Safari). Additionally, adopting 64-bit WebAssembly will require some effort from the affected projects.


Other use cases are more on the edge, like slightly older routers, embedded systems, X86-32 emulators and others, but the listed drawbacks may outweigh the benefits of these niche cases.

One argument I don=E2=80=99t consider strong is running 32bit builds = of PHP on already supporting 64bit environments to save memory. While it's true, that 32-bit builds consumes less memory - it's actually not that much and it comes with a cost of being ~2.5 times slower.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 X64=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 X32=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 %<= br> time:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 0.005423069s=C2=A0 0.014256954s= =C2=A0 262%
mem:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 1127808b=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 914064b=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 81%
memReal:=C2=A0=C2=A0 4194304b=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 4194304= b=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 100%
peak:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 1128696b=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 914888b=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 81%
peakReal:=C2=A0 4194304b=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 4194304b=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 100%=C2=A0

That said, once WebAssembly has been fully adopted, I'll most likely revisit this RFC.

In the meantime, there are two possibilities to reduce the issues of 32-bit builds, though both would increase the complexity of PHP internals.

* consistent 64-bit integers on all platforms [1]
* native big integer support [2][3]

[1] https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/19079 (Draft= )
[2] https://wiki.php.net/rfc/bigint (Withdrawn)
[3] https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/876 (Closed)


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