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Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2025 14:17:43 +0200
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Readonly property hooks
To: Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.com>
Cc: php internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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From: volker@tideways-gmbh.com (Volker Dusch)

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Hey Larry,

Couple points from a first read and from trying to run the examples.

a) From the "ProductFromDB" i get:

> Fatal error: Uncaught TypeError: LazyProduct::$category::get(): Return
value must be of type Category, none returned in ...

I assume you're missing a return statement here? Or is there something I'm
missing?

b) Minor wording gripe in the proposal section

> On the other hand, there is no shortage of dumb things that people can do
with PHP already.

While I don't disagree that PHP gives people a lot of freedom in how they
want to write their code, I find it a bit crude for an RFC to phrase it
like that. And the __get comparison is strong enough to stand on its own.

c)

> That is, we feel, an entirely reasonable use of hooks, and would allow
for lazy-load behavior per-property on readonly classes.

I might be misunderstanding the sentence here, but on-demand/Lazy
initialization of properties on readonly classes is already possible in
classic getter/setter classes.

Do you mean you want to have parity to this behavior when using hooks? I'm
all for it, I just feel the sentence says this enables something that
wasn't possible before but if you mean this in scope property access it
makes sense to me.

d) PositivePoint

Example doesn't compile against 8.4, master, or
against NickSdot:readonly-hooks

Can you make this a script that runs and shows expected output so that
readers don't have to assume this is supposed to do or run it?

e) Backward Incompatible Changes

Section is not filled in yet

f) Date: 2024-07-10

Is this correct? I know you created the page back then, but was there a
discussion already that I wasn't able to find?

Kind Regards,
Volker

On Sun, Jun 8, 2025 at 6:18=E2=80=AFAM Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.c=
om>
wrote:

> As Nick has graciously provided an implementation, we would like to open
> discussion on this very small RFC to allow `readonly` on backed propertie=
s
> even if they have a hook defined.
>
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/readonly_hooks
>
> --
>   Larry Garfield
>   larry@garfieldtech.com
>


--=20
Volker Dusch
Head of Engineering
Tideways GmbH
K=C3=B6nigswinterer Str. 116
53227 Bonn
https://tideways.io/imprint

Sitz der Gesellschaft: Bonn
Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Benjamin Au=C3=9Fenhofer (geb. Eberlei)
Registergericht: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 22127

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hey Larry,<div><br></div><div>Couple points from a first r=
ead and from trying to run the examples.</div><div><br></div><div>a) From t=
he &quot;ProductFromDB&quot; i get:</div><div><br></div><div>&gt; Fatal err=
or: Uncaught TypeError: LazyProduct::$category::get(): Return value must be=
 of type Category, none returned in ...</div><div><br></div><div>I assume y=
ou&#39;re missing a return statement here? Or is there something I&#39;m mi=
ssing?</div><div><br></div><div>b) Minor wording gripe in the proposal sect=
ion</div><div><br></div><div>&gt;=C2=A0On the other hand, there is no short=
age of dumb things that people can do with PHP already. </div><div><br></di=
v><div>While I don&#39;t disagree that PHP gives people a lot of freedom in=
 how they want to write their code, I find it a bit crude for an RFC to phr=
ase it like that. And the __get comparison is strong enough to stand on its=
 own.</div><div><br></div><div>c)=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>&gt; That =
is, we feel, an entirely reasonable use of hooks, and would allow for lazy-=
load behavior per-property on readonly classes.</div><div><br></div>I might=
 be misunderstanding the sentence here, but on-demand/Lazy initialization o=
f properties on readonly classes is already possible in classic getter/sett=
er classes.<div><br></div><div>Do you mean you want to have parity to this =
behavior when using hooks? I&#39;m all for it, I just feel the sentence say=
s this enables something that wasn&#39;t possible before but if you mean th=
is in scope property access it makes sense to me.</div><div><br></div><div>=
d) PositivePoint</div><div><br></div><div>Example doesn&#39;t compile again=
st 8.4, master, or against=C2=A0NickSdot:readonly-hooks</div><div><br></div=
><div>Can you make this a script that runs and shows expected output so tha=
t readers don&#39;t have to assume this is supposed to do or run it?</div><=
div><br></div><div>e) Backward Incompatible Changes</div><br><div>Section i=
s not filled in yet</div><div><br></div><div>f) Date: 2024-07-10</div><br><=
div>Is this correct? I know you created the page back then, but was there a=
 discussion already that I wasn&#39;t able to find?</div><div><br></div><di=
v>Kind Regards,</div><div>Volker</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote g=
mail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 8, =
2025 at 6:18=E2=80=AFAM Larry Garfield &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:larry@garfield=
tech.com">larry@garfieldtech.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">As Nick has graciously provided an impleme=
ntation, we would like to open discussion on this very small RFC to allow `=
readonly` on backed properties even if they have a hook defined.<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://wiki.php.net/rfc/readonly_hooks" rel=3D"noreferrer" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://wiki.php.net/rfc/readonly_hooks</a><br>
<br>
-- <br>
=C2=A0 Larry Garfield<br>
=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:larry@garfieldtech.com" target=3D"_blank">larry@ga=
rfieldtech.com</a><br>
</blockquote></div><div><br clear=3D"all"></div><div><br></div><span class=
=3D"gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_s=
ignature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:ar=
ial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">Volker Dusch</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(=
34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">Head of Engineerin=
g</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-=
size:12.8px"><div>Tideways GmbH</div><div>K=C3=B6nigswinterer Str. 116</div=
><div>53227 Bonn</div><div><a href=3D"https://tideways.io/imprint" style=3D=
"color:rgb(17,85,204)" target=3D"_blank">https://tideways.io/imprint</a><br=
></div><div><br></div><div>Sitz der Gesellschaft: Bonn</div><div>Gesch=C3=
=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Benjamin Au=C3=9Fenhofer (geb. Eberlei)</div><div>Regist=
ergericht: Amtsgericht Bonn, HRB 22127</div></div></div></div>

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